Feline Infectious Peritonitis

[Daveyo]

To Kirby and Jnz;

Ok here it is. I put it down in laymans terms rather than the scientific terms lest you not understand.

First it is absolutely essential to find out which of the two virus symptoms the cat has >>>either the Wet Form or the Dry Form. From there the rest is explained below. So remember this part OK. Advise other cat owners that they have to get the right diagnosis as ACCURATE AS POSSIBLE, before giving the medications!!!!!!!

FIP is a genetic change of a Virus in the gut of cats called Corona Virus. Most cats carry Corona virus in their intestines. About 80 %. So, about 6 % of those undergo a change in the genetics of the virus that makes it attack the macrophages of the abdomen instead. NOT CONTAGIOUS AT THIS PHASE. Unless the virus is transferred by syringe. So, in the macrophage cell in the abdomen it begins to make """antibodies and massive amounts of fibrin""" against this virus of which most drugs cannot reach the virus because it is now intracellular. Remember we talked about this in distemper and it is posted here.

The virus FIP in the macrophage now starts to make mountains of antibody and a protein(fibrin) that plugs up small capillaries and makes them leak. This is the classic phase of the disease very thick types of serum (protein,globulin,fibrin) in the abdomen. They almost look pregnant. Can happen in the chest as well. These cats all die. Called the wet form.

Then there is the dry form. Very high total protein and globulin. Sometimes this is all that is seen. These cats suffer from vascular failure in the various organs of the body. The dry form.


Wet form can be controlled using Quinine. Not cured--> CONTROLLED!!!. Once the quinine is discontinued the disease progresses to death.


The dry form which is what we saw in Calif most, is controlled with Atabrine. 50 mg per cat per day. We found that It in some way is causing the macrophages to stop doing what they do. These cats can recover to a cure. Personally have seen several. Both drugs do the same thing to the macrophage but one does it permanently and the other temporarily. Antimalarial drugs.

They seem to turn of the macrophages ability to manufacture fibrin.( I think) The dry form untreated also progresses to death. Can be fast or slow.

Biggest problem with either virus is diagnosis. Can tell if a cat has Corona but cannot tell if the virus is corona or FiP Both have the same serologic test signature. Can be high l/16000 or low less than 1/400. This is usually the way the test comes back less than 1/400. Means not sick.

Now you can have a virus amplification done of the cells in the abdomen and verify the FIP or autopsy also can tell because all the organs in the abdomen are covered in Fibrin. A clotting material. That which plugs up the vessels etc. Nasty disease.

Basically what this means the animal's veins or pathways of blood get plugged up depriving the nutrients to sustain the main functions of the animal. This kind of disease is very difficult itself to stop but at least we found two verified methods that works.

Not a cytokine storm of sorts but a reverse process to stop the massive antibody buildup. What happens is the virus gets shield and the T response is rendered useless because the antibodies surrounds the virus setting up a wall. Again this is DNA coding of the virus that is able to control the antibodies to go against its main threat the T cell. The autoimmune system wants it gone but lost control of its own forces which sort of became a traitor to the system itself. Another way of saying the antibodies declared a mutiny of sorts.

In the case of Distemper, the virus itself causes the T cell response to destroy its own good cells and avoids the attack direct. Completely opposite of what FIPV does. The autoimmune system loses control of the T cell but controls the antibodies.

This is the best way I can put it. No one was able to control the T cell medically until I made that discovery myself.

In the case of a cat, it is controlling antibodies which is the problem and not T cell. Another description is the immune system of the cat went haywire caused by the virus building up its shields against the T -cell.

This is like going into a deep underground bunker and no shell can touch you because you got the earth to shield you and you got the bunker itself to shield you. Only way is a direct hit. Well the Antimalarial drugs Atabrine and quinine seem to stop the antibodies itself and gives the T cell response a chance to wipe out the virus. This is a slow normal body process and no push or major cytokine storm involved. The drug Atabrine and Quinine itself gives the push for T cell response itself.

Doc and Daveyo

[Marnixowner]

Thank you for this information. My cat has dry form FIP and I am trying to source the atabrine to try and help him recover. If we are successful will he need to be separated from the other cat in the house. The other cat has been tested and found to have a high titer and may be a carrier of corona virus. Will reinfection of the corona virus cause a relapse of FIP?

[Daveyo]

Keep them separated until the cat with the dry form is cured. If you follow my previous instructions, this should take just over a month.

As of the other cat get it checked out quickly to find out if it has wet or dry form. You already know it has corona virus. It will definitely start the FIP soon. So now is the time to find out where your cat stands. If the diagnosis comes out dry form, your in luck and give the Atabrine to that cat also. Once both are cured, consider yourself lucky.

Daveyo

To jnz, please advise the people here that if it has wet form the cat must receive quinine for LIFE!! (until I can come up with another method or answer for you otherwise) If the owner stops giving the quinine the FIP will start up again and it will come back with a vengeance on that cat. Understand. Good.

Now the VETS writing up the Dx for the Atabrine, please tell that VET there is nothing else left that can save your cat, other than coming from me and Dr. Sears, and that VET has nothing to lose by giving you that prescription and to ask him to allow you to do what you need to do on your own. Basically the VET has reached a dead end regarding the FIP issue medical wise from the books. So tell him OK Nothing will happen to a VET by helping you writing such prescription. If you want to give him some assurances tell the VET you will sign any legal document absolving him of any suit of any kind. You have to also get your VET out a legal box as well. If this VET helps you make sure you don't go back and bite him in the rear. The VET is doing you a favor albeit against std procedure rules.

Daveyo

[Marnixowner]

I'm afraid I am unable to get the prescription needed to help my cat. I have been phoning round every vet in the book and it comes back to the same thing, they will not prescribe a drug that has no clinical background for this use. Unless you know of anyway I can get this drug outside of the usual channels then I have come to a dead end.

[Daveyo]

JNZ!!!! where are you. This person needs help getting the drugs. By the way Marn, are you anywhere close to Californy???? I have contacts there and also in Utah. Give me your location and I will see what I can do for you. Resources are limited.

Let me know pronto. One problem though you got to wait for 5 days, cause my other expert is now at the convention trying to get researchers now interested. Hope he succeeds. Just keep that cat comfortable until then and I hope it is not too late.

Finally got word from Mayo, they sort of took up on my advice and its working!!!!!! So close they can smell it. Wow!!!!

Daveyo

[Marnixowner]

Thank you for your quick reply. Unfornunately no I'm nowhere near California, I'm in the United Kingdom. After some more research at appears that in the UK a vet cannot make a prescription for a drug that is not approved for that use. There is some leeway as to what they can prescribe if no other treatment is available but without some sort of published information on the use of atabrine for the treatment of FIP or a similar disease the vet would probably be putting his job on the line. If you have any information I can use to try and sway them or give them the excuse they need to prescribe atabrine without risking their job I would appreciate it. Other than that I'm going to have to try to get it illegally which I imagine is going to be just as hard. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

[Daveyo]

Oh boy, do I hear ya. Everything is so recent, no time at all to put into the books. This you have to tell him. Other than that, go underground and find it. Only way. I know how you feel and of your situation, and many are put right smack in a corner with no place to go. If one end not cooperate what to do????

Contact JNZ here and see what he can do for you.

Daveyo

[Kirbyman]

Hello again.

As I asked two days ago on your website [moderator note: website address has been removed] ,
I would still be needing the correct dosage of QUININE for a cat with WET FIP,
mine ways 3 kilos (=6.61lbs) and is 1 year old.

PLEASE LET ME KNOW.
I have located a source, but can't order it yet, because I need to know amounts!

Thanks in advance.

Dimitri.

[Daveyo]

Ok sorry my server was down past two days. Ok I will look up for your formula and report back ASAP

Daveyo

[Kirbyman]

[quote="Marnixowner"]I'm afraid I am unable to get the prescription needed to help my cat. I have been phoning round every vet in the book and it comes back to the same thing, they will not prescribe a drug that has no clinical background for this use. Unless you know of anyway I can get this drug outside of the usual channels then I have come to a dead end.[/quote]

Marnixowner, it would be wise to be extremely carefull when using atabrine:
Certainly consult your vet concerning the information I dug up here:

I found the following:

BIOCHEMICAL ASPECTS OF THE TOXICITY OF ATABRINE
II. THE INFLUENCE OF THE DIET UPON THE EFFECTS PRODUCED BY
REPEATED DOSES OF THE DRUG
JOHN V. SCUDI 1 and MARGARET T. HAMLIN 1

1 From the Merck Institute for Therapeutic Research, Rahway, N. J.

Rats maintained on a high protein-low fat diet appear to resist toxic effects
upon the liver of the daily administration of atabrine to a greater degree
than rats maintained on low-protein diets or a diet high in both protein and fat.
Inhibition of liver function in the rat was not detected by the bromsulfalein test,
the determination of the icteric index, bilirubin or prothrombin time.
Plasma fibrinogen values appear to parallel the toxic effects of atabrine upon the liver.

Daily administration of large doses of atabrine (25 to 50 mgm. per kgm.)
to dogs produces an inanition* within 3 to 6 weeks.
At lower dose levels (5 to 10 mgm. per kgm.) this is not evident
three to five months after initiation of drug administration.

Plasma fibrinogen levels are more rapidly increased by the daily administration
of atabrine in protein depleted dogs than in dogs maintained on a stock ration.
This effect of the drug is reversed by restoring protein to the diet of the depleted dogs.

Determinations of the prothrombin time, icteric index, bilirubin, urinary urobilin,
urea, non-protein nitrogen, urinary protein, and the Hanger flocculation time
afforded no evidence of depressed function in these dogs.
Submitted on October 16, 1943


*Ination means exhaustion from lack of nourishment; starvation.
[from Old French inanicion, exhaustion from hunger
also weakness characterized by a lack of vitality or energy
Exhaustion from want/lack of food and water,
either from partial or complete starvation,
or from a disorder of the digestive apparatus, producing the same result.
Repletion and inanition may both do harm in two contrary extremes.


TO DAVEYO, how certain are you that that daily atabrin dose of 50mg per day per cat,
is safe on the long run, I am absolutely not trying to counterdict your information,
but I know cats and dogs sometimes have different tolerance levels,
a cat of 5kg taking in 50mg per day is at 10mg/kg BodyMass.
So I would certainly advise Marnixowner not to go above that at all.


TO MARNIXOWNER
Have you had any luck digging up the maximum tolerance level for cats,
regarding atabrin toxicity?

Hope everything works out!
Greetz, Dimitri.