Cranial Cruciate Ligament Rupture

[Labadorer]

Hi all - We have started our journey with the regenerative stem cell repair procedure - although new to dogs (about 3 years), the stem cell therapy has been used on horses for several years with success. We were willing to try it as the tear to the craniomedial band was at 15-20% and the "cut off" is about 25%
... the other band is in tact and there is no meniscus damage. We have kept her quiet and leashed at all times in the house since the May 6th procedure, put down nonskid rugs over all the "paths" on the hardwood flooring, religiously use the "lifter" to assist in in and out with the 2 steps to the house and monitor her at all times. She really has been an excellent patient. However, it is heartbreaking when she carries her soccer ball around and drops it emphatically at our feet while we are out for a leashed stroll in the yard, but in the end I know she will be back to playing.....
her housemate does not understand why they are in the "shift" mode when going out - but we are sure to share time by keeping the other dog in shape in training class.
Initial improvement should start to be seen at 4 weeks and out - but since she was asymptomatic (lame only once in awhile, sat with her leg still tucked etc) and we caught it early (before additional damage happened) - I mainly noticed a little "skip" in her gaiting and she favored it once in awhile but never at the same time of day or from the same activity - then she began shifting weight when sitting and seemed to walk on her toes........ off to the specialist we went.
If I try to look at it objectively, I believe there has been improvement - I can see she is putting full weight on her paw when she is just standing and the sloppy sit
has definitely diminished (sometimes we have a nice tight sit with no weight shift to the good hip).
All in all, good signs so far. Only time, therapy and attention will be the true test.

[Daveyo]

Hi could you be so kind enough to tell us where you got this treatment at and who did it for you and the name of the doctor. I really would like to know because I saw another post here by Diggy who wants to put his 3 year old to sleep!!!!!!!!!!

Also this would be good news for many people and the other thing is can you tell me the cost of doing such treatment with stem cells. I knew it worked and was hoping someone would do it, and viola you are the first we have heard.

Would appreciate your data most kindly.

Daveyo

[Labadorer]

Hi -
The veterinarian is Dr. Sherman Canapp, DVM,MS,CCRI, Diplomate ACVS Orthopedic Surgery and Sports Medicine - the practice is Veterinary Orthopedic Sports Medicine Group (www.vosm.com). VOSM is in Annapolis Junction, MD (just a bit south of Baltimore off of I95) - the practice just moved into new facilities in April and it is top notch state of the art, I mean the whole facility door to door, room by room, end to end is matted - no linoleum for dogs to skid or slip on, there is a gait analysis room where there is a gaiting test set up (mat with sensors to measure pressure and gait stride length)
the physical therapy available at this practice is a big part of the proper recovery of its patients - pool, underwater treadmills, ultrasound stimulation and more. I learned that this new location was chosen because it is 1/2 way between Dulles Airport and BWI Airport - they have patients fly in to be evaluated at this practice.

At the VetStem site there is a veterinarian locator so there may be one closer than you think.
YOu can also read about some of the testimonials from previous owners/patients - arthritis in the hips and shoulders, CCl repair and more - all amazingly hopeful applications that with time, will travel "up" the chain for human application.

[Daveyo]

Hi

Any web sites???? Also what are the costs that they charge as this is needed to prepare others for possible price shocks too you know.

It is a start, but how to find via the web site. Could you give me the link if possible and any other information.

Would surely appreciate it a lot.

Oh by the way do they have to do the surgery before giving the stem cells??? I would think so in order for it to work properly as it being something like a rubber band and it needs to be reattached. The basic purpose for the stem cells is to strengthen it back up and also seal up more securely the tear portion and for it to also remove possible arthritis conditions etc.

The other thing is are they doing microsopic surgery with minimum invasive techniques thus keeping the incision and entry point down to a bare minimum to avoid major damage?

Will await your reply.

Daveyo

[Labadorer]

Hi -
The "surgery" involved was exploratory arthroscopic surgery (a small ~1/2 inch incision on the inside of the knee) which allowed the veterinarian to determine how much damage had occurred: in my dog's case, it was assessed at a 15-20%, or partial tear, in the craniomedial band. Dogs have 2 "bands in each knee" - the other band - the caudolateral - was still in tact and the meniscus was in tact.
We were in a waiting room during the arthroscopic assessment and the surgeon sent word out that she was within the "range" (for the best outcome) to receive the regenerative stem cell procedure.
We chose to go with the stem cell therapy rather than the TPLO.
The surgeon then made a small 4 inch incision on the belly (about where you would see a spay
incision) where the belly fat was extracted for the stem cells.

www.vet-stem.com
http://www.vet-stem.com/smallanimal/
Also click on testimonials

To locate a veterinarian that is trained in the procedure
http://www.vet-stem.com/locatevet/

www.vosm.com - where we had it done

Estimated at $2500 +/- for stem cell therapy alone.

[Daveyo]

Hi Lab

Fantastic report. Yep yep yep.

Now what concerns me most that it is a partial tear which means basically it is hanging on by a thread of 80% give or take which was still intact. The other roughly 20% was torn and split. Ok

Yep the VET has the right diagnosis and the right assessment. Definitely qualifies the stem cells indeed.

What I need to know now, if you can get ahold of them for me since I am on the other side of the world, is to ask them this question. If it was a full tear complete, and if such was reattached what are the chances for the same stem cell procedure?????

This is how I am looking at it. Now at roughly max 25% tear will not require further surgery of which stem cells can complete the rest and re-attach the ligament like brand new again. What happens when at 50% or more and some surgery was done to attach the other 50% and the stem cells used etc.

What I am getting at is this: If the surgery was performed to reattach anything greater than 25%, and if the stem cells are used would this also repair the damage and the scar itself????.

I am thinking it should repair the scar and that spot and basically rebuild it back up to like brand spanking new.

The stem cells I know will take care of the arthritis that usually happens and remove it. As difficult as it is to sew up a rubber band I can see why they charge such a high price.

The stem cell method I believe is the big key and the holy grail answer to rebuilding it back up and eliminating all the other problems that come with the tear.

You know for a very long time I knew this and I do believe I have previously posted this on the forum, but never saw it done. You are the first to my knowledge.

I am taking your information hopefully with your permission since it is your copyright etc, to post this on my forum at caninedistemper dot proboards dot com. You have to be careful of putting names here and links as this site is so notorious for removing the data. I got it all down now so don't worry or fret over it if it is censored so to speak.

Feel free to browse at my site my friend and there is a wealth of information there which I do believe will come in handy for you someday soon.

I do thank you for telling me and really do appreciate it confirming my suspicions that I had for a long time. Hey hey hey, no doubt about it, the Cubs are on their way heyheyhey!!!!!! Famous song by the Cubbies back in 1969 when they were on their way to their first place pennant and totally flopped against the Mets in 14 games. Yea they blew the lead that season and it took another 20 years to recover from that fiasco. Still remember the names, Ron Santo, Don Kessinger, Glen Beckert, Ernie Banks, and Randy Hundley, and the outfield was Billy Williams, Adolpho Phillips, and Gary Mathews.

Pitchers were Ken Holtzman, Bill Hands, and 2 others who are dead now. My father and I watched that season with absolute horror, seeing all our dreams for the first World Series go right down the drain. To this day, those darn Cubbies have never gotten to the World Series in over 100 years. They did knock on the door a couple times but not enough. Man how time flew and today it is almost 2010.

I have seen a lot in my lifetime, but my parents saw even more and worse situations than we have today. Depression, Disease epidemics, 2 World Wars, and the Korean War, dealth with the Nazis, and Communists, and saw Israel become a nation, saw the jets for the first time, experienced the 1st Nuclear Blast and saw color tv come around and etc etc. All firsts so to speak. My father never saw the computer age, but my mother saw the beginning stages of it. So I probably will see the beginning stages of the Sonic Waverider and maybe perhaps fly on one of them going Mach 7 or better before my days come to a close. Imagine going from LAX to Sidney and be there in less than 3 hours!!!!! all on jet fuel using a quarter of the amount of what a 747 uses today. Long hauls will become obsolete as you can get there so fast you not know it or realize that today the same flight takes over 15 hours. The ones that really would be crying for a decent paycheck is the flight attendants and flight crews. Why they get paid based on the hours flown from gate to gate. A three hour flight means only 9`0 dollars earned. Wow.

Yea history is changing fast. I predict by 2200 you might be teleported around the world and be at that same destination in less than 5 minutes. The trick is teleporting our body bones and chemistry without destroying or affecting it, especially our brains. One wrong mistake and we are dead on arrival. By 2100 we will be using flying cars for sure with capabilities of going from Chicago to LAX in 3 hours non stop instead of using airlines. Airlines will be using trans oceanic flights only. By 2200 Airlines will become extinct on this planet and be using space travel flights from Earth to the Moon. It is very much possible to be flying from Earth to Mars by 2300 and getting there in 24 hours which again is considered long haul space flights. Ehhhhhh.

None of us will see this but it is a good vision. Medically I do believe we will be using stem cells to replace our aging bodies and our life spans going to like 150 years or more by 2300. Think about it as this means our life spans doubled to nearly triple lengths. Wow. Hard to say to someone ahem I am now 200 years old in today's world, but by that time it will be common. Incredible huh. for dogs or cats I would expect their lifespans triple or quadruple by that time. Today 10-15 years is average, by that time 100 years might be average.

Imagine I am 155 years old and walking next to me my faithful and trusty loyal friend is 120 years old and still kicks up a storm chasing birds up the tree and I stand there and marvel at his accomplishments. Whewwwwwwww. 155 years old might be called our Golden Years by that time.

Enough of future talk

thanks for the info, was daydreaming here sigh, us old foggies do this once in awhile.

Daveyo