[nancys]

Daveyo,

I purchased a King Charles Cavalier from an extremely reputable and highly respected breeder in December when it 4 months old. The puppy had been given its distemper vaccines at 8wks and 12 wks. When I took the puppy in for its new puppy vet visit, the puppy was put on Zythromax for upper respir. This didn't completely knock out the problem so we did a 2nd round of Zythromax. She was good for a week or so then it came back so the breeder took the puppy back and nebulized the puppy for the next week and then when she returned she was completely normal. On Jan 10 the puppy had a seizure and recovered. Feb. 11 she had another short seizure...again recovering quickly. Feb 24 I noticed the foam in her playpen so assumed she had had another but she was normal when I saw her. (After each one I contacted the vet and they ran blood work and told me it was probably puppy seizures.) Then March 10 all heck broke loose. She had a major seizure followed by gum chewing seizures for a long long time. She never came back to normal. I finally took her to the emergency room when I found her breathing hard with her little white tongue hanging out of her mouth. They took care of her that night and the next morning I took her to her normal vet. She was still seizing through the phenolbarbitol and they ran more tests and front loaded her with the phenol later that night. Wen I took her home 2 days later she kept falling and her head was still shaking. The results came back positive for distemper (titer test). After a few weeks ALL shaking stopped and she was returning to a normal dog. Since that time I have had her phenol levels checked and she is not even in the therapeutic range (8) but she is doing marvelous so I never upped her meds. I have also done another titer test and her results were exactly the same IGG 1:100 and IGM 1:10 (both positive) Last week I asked for a PCR test for distemper and that came back negative. She does occasionally go off her food and have intestinal issues and just had an ear infection but I don't believe these are related. Her vet also noted that her stomach looks glandular....but since she has had one heat he discounted it. This week I have also decided to back her off her phenol a little at a time since she has had no seizures since that awful March 10 night. I now only give her a pill in the am (1/4 grain) I am to take her to the vet this Wed. to move on with her vaccines since she has had not had any since I purchased her back in Dec. because she was sick. I read that live vaccines should not be given but based on this information what do you recommend?

Does it do any good to run the bladder test after the fact if it was distemper? Would 2 doses of vaccine make her titers look like this...possible??? Where do we go from here? What else disguises itself like distemper? I have often thought of a bacterial infection. I also had titers for ehrlichia run and they came back negative. She is the greatest dog and I would love to breed in the future if it wouldn't cause her further problems. If possible I would I greatly appreciate the opportunity to talk with you via phone.

Thank you for your input!

[Daveyo]

Hi I am Daveyo

Thanks for asking for me. Hmm, read your post here. The only way your going to know if your dog has Distemper is doing the CSF Tap test done and ask them to do the specific Distemper Test. If it comes back positive , trust me it is still in the cerebral spinal fluid and it is continuing to do damage to your dog.

Secondly for now DO NOT GIVE IT ANY VACCINATION SHOTS until you get that CSF tap done!!!!!. If that dog has Distemper in the cerebral fluid, that Parvo vaccine will set it off completely and I believe your dog will die.

Now if it comes back positive, in the CSF fluid tap, you need to give it the NDV injection and do the NDV-CSF tap one more time. Only the NDV can stop this disease and also vacate the ODE on your dog. You will also need to give your dog the NDV in the body as well first before the tap. Once you do this, the dog is immuned for life against distemper. NDV can only be used once in the body and only once in the CNS (cerebral nervous system)

Right now your in the lull period and it varies per dog. The real big seizures are due coming but I cannot tell you when depending on the genetics of your dog. Your what is known is the ODE phase- Old Dog Encephalitis. Without the NDV given to the central Nervous system all dogs will expire once the full ODE event begins.

I am almost certain with a 95% certainity factor that your dog is still infected in the cerebral fluid.

If your going to the VET Wednesday, have him or her do the CSF tap at the Foramen Magnum (the Cerebral cranial cavity) and have him take out 0.2cc of which 0.1cc is for the first test. If that test comes out negative, (my guess will be positive) you have another 0.1cc of which it can be tested for another means to determine your dogs actual status.

Let me know if you decide to get the CSF tap done. Doing it by other means like the blood and bladder it won't be there now. You can however get a full CBC done because I am interested in knowing what the WBC count is at. This tells me what the full immune defense system the dog has currently. Also this tells me the bone marrow state.

Will await word from you

Daveyo

[nancys]

Thank you for your response! I will cancel my appt with the vet for shots this week and ponder all you have presented. I will definintely ask for a full blood panel run but not sure about the spinal yet. Let's just assume she did indeed have distemper and I proceed with the NDV....any harm in that without confirmation of distemper? Would the blood panel give you any further information? Are you saying that without the NDV the distemper continues to slowly affect the dog even though titers show the disease is not active? Is it possible for me to talk with you via phone conference or my vet/neurologist to contact you? I live in Florida so I will try to make contacts tomorrow to locate the NDV. If you are familar with anyone in Florida that has performed this before I would appreciate the contact. (I presented some of Dr. Sears information to my vet several months ago and they were not agreeable so they may not be willing to help me.) Can the breeder give these shots?

[Daveyo]

Hi Nancy

Ok first let me answer your questions properly.

No. 1 >Let's just assume she did indeed have distemper and I proceed with the NDV....any harm in that without confirmation of distemper?

Answer is NO it will not harm the dog at all, but I need to advise you that if you do, and if there is no Distemper antibodies in the Cerebral fluid you just wasted your main back up option and cannot do this again to the cerebral fluid area. This is a very big gamble if you do not know for certain and I don't like playing it this way. Best be certain and have it confirmed. Basically it is best for you to do the tap and FIND OUT and be absolutely certain if the Distemper antibodies is in the spinal (cerebral fluid) fluid area. The only other way that you can bypass this tap test is if the dog has all the clinical signs of the disease like hardening of the pads (which when they walk sounds like walking on wood and you can feel it being awful hard instead of the paws being supple and soft, goop in the eyes, nasal discharge or is having seizures along with the chewing in the air bubble gum action and is having very soupy stools that smell bad or if you do the bladder smear test after onset of the diseases symptoms and such was confirmed. If it is only partial of these signs DO THE TAP TEST. Be safe and not sorry OK.

No 2 > Would the blood panel give you any further information?

Answer > Yes this can tell me a lot of the current condition of your dog and its immune defense system and of the bone marrow itself plus tell me if any other conditions are indicative of need for attention.

No 3 > Are you saying that without the NDV the distemper continues to slowly affect the dog even though titers show the disease is not active?

Answer > YES----Two situations here. If the dog has had prior vaccinations, the titer readings will indicate to us either it has prior vaccinations or a ongoing disease in progress or its current protection level. This involves the blood area of the dog. When it comes to the cerebral fluid area, if titer readings show Distemper antibodies, then it breached the blood brain barrier and this confirms ABSOLUTE that the dog is infected and definitely needs the NDV-CSF tap done. A vaccination shot will not breach the blood brain barrier. Only the virus will breach and it enters the cerebral area via the lung passage route. Complicated to explain to you here. Under all and most circumstances the cerebral fluid itself should be free of intruding dangerous viruses or antibodies. A clear system is the norm on humans and in animals. Recently we have made progress to inject into the cerebral fluid area of antibodies (the Mayo Clinic ongoing now) and of my discovery to inject vaccine which stops the deadly disease dead on its tracks. It is also well known in the medical circle that Distemper Vaccine and Parvo Vaccine when given at the same time is a deadly and dangerous mix and there are many cases of dogs getting instant Distemper itself caused by the vaccine. What Parvo does is, it will open up the blood brain barrier for a total of 11 days thus exposing the dog wide open to attack from Distemper if the dogs immune system is not up to par. That is why I tell everybody to keep the Distemper completely apart from Parvo and use Killed virus versions which is safer if going to give a combo shot. Do not give a combo shot with Live Modified Virus Versions. This is where the problem is happening.

Stopping Canine Distemper is one of the hardest to do notwithstanding the fact the virus itself is so flexible and resilent in adapting to various means to eradicate it. Therefore Dr. Sears and I came up with a method that creates a huge cytokine cascade storm that destroys this virus both for the body and (from me) now the cerebral area, and yet not affect the dog and it cures the dog in less than 24 hours!!!!!! No researcher to this day has been able to match this kind of record. Not only that I also found a way to control the deadly T-cells of the auto immune system and the Mayo clinic has been in touch with me because I may have found the answer to the MS problem in humans.

No 4 > Is it possible for me to talk with you via phone conference or my vet/neurologist to contact you?

Answer > Unfortunately we don't give out our phone numbers here on internet but only on private means, because if we do, we will be getting a huge amount of calls from many people day and night and never get any rest because of the desperation of so many people needing us to save them. You however can write to me and title it Distemper Questions with your name on it and I will spot it in the Junk folder and then make contact with you on private e-mail if you wish. We are very selective to answer people on the private side because it takes so much of our time. You can write to [moderator note: e-mail address has been removed] and your vet or neurologist can write to me as well. I will be happy to answer their questions.

To find NDV in Florida, you need to contact any agricultural poultry store and they should have them or get in touch with a chicken farmer and they will point you in the right direction. The other is call the Agriculture Department and hit the phone book and they will tell you where the nearest place that has the following:

Newcastles Disease Virus Vaccine of the LaSorta strain.

Please weigh your dog first and then get the vaccine plus 1 for the neuro as well and 1 for a backup. The Dx is 0.1cc for every pound of weight of the dog or 0.45kg. This is body injection. For the CSF tap it is based on SIZE OF THE DOG, and not weight. You have to go to my site at [moderator note: website address has been removed] and after your register there, look for Canine Distemper and look for the medical protocol and everything is there both for the body and the CSF-Tap. OK. Print this out and then give to your VET that will do the procedure. Body is weight of the dog, Spinal fluid is size of the dog.

Number 5 > Can the breeder give these shots?

Answer > No since they will not try for fear of a lawsuit!!!! They will probably do it on their own dogs but not from other owners. You can do such yourself (or any other qualified medical person such as a nurse etc.), on the body portion if you have some medical knowledge concerning syringes and needles and blood veins. When it comes to messing with the spine itself and the cord, you need a VET to do this because it is indeed a delicate procedure (of which does not take very long at all), yet you need someone with experience who knows just how to insert needles to the spine. One mistake can either render the dog dead or paralyzed or some other complications etc. Doing a CSF tap, the VET needs anesthesia, Anti-shock meds, I.V. fluids, and two syringes, two empty sterile vials, plus Saline and a cather. Understand. The entire operation on the CSF tap takes only 1 hour from beginning to end when you walk out with your dog. It is a fast procedure. Also the VET has to shave off the hair at the Foramen Magnum area of where the spine meets with the brain stem at the back side of the head just under the skull part. Now you understand how delicate this is????? The dog has to be absolutely still when such is done and sleeping soundly and the vet has to make sure Anti-shock meds are given prior to doing the tap or the dog will go into shock which would be the case since a foreign substance was given to the spine and he will need to treat for the shock condition until it passes which takes a few minutes there as well. This is> Only if he does not give the anti-shock meds.

Number 6 > If you are familar with anyone in Florida that has performed this before I would appreciate the contact.

Answer > Unfortunately no but I know of someone who lives in Florida but have not heard from them for quite some time. I do know of Utah and California, & Dr. Sears as well. Sorry, you have to do some special leg work for your animal and I hope you do find a good VET that will take care of you and your needs.

I hope this answers all your questions.

Feel free to stay in touch with me. I will try to help you all I can.

Perhaps someone here in the forum might know of a VET that can assist you and that they reside in Florida. Make a post and ask for the help in bold caps. It will catch someones attention.

Daveyo