Canine Distemper

[gemmaashford]

I am living in a part of Thailand where we have no vet. I am not a vet and have been learning as I go. I have been using the vaccine 'Oxytetracycline' to treat the severe cases of Distemper (sometimes successfully). Is this drug as good as any? When can I start administering it? (as I have only been giving it to the dogs in the severe neurological stage.) Also..is the tablet tetracycline best for the dogs if they are able to open their mouth and swallow?
And finally..is it possible to give the vaccine against the disease to dogs who may already have it (but show now signs yet) and prevent them from getting it?

[Daveyo]

Oxytetracycline does not stop Distemper This was tried long time ago and it has absolutely no effect.

Only NDV (NewCastle's Disease Virus Vaccine of the LaSorta Strain) stops Distemper in the body and stops the progression but not cure the Disease in the CSF. By stopping the progression of the Disease in the CSF the Dog has a chance to recover and hopefully if done early enough it will not have the severe side damage caused by the Disease such as paralysis, or other neurological problems. If given the CSF and the dog has Seizures Phenobarbital of 8.125 daily to start for one week and then as needed, slows down the seizures and gives the brain a chance to recover from such and eventually it will abate slowly over time. Same for paralysis, the NDV will stop that progression and give the dog a chance to recover on its own hopefully as much as possible given time.

Anything else to stop the disease is the Serum that can be made and it is specific to the hour to extract where it is most effective. All this is posted in this forum under For Those With Confirmed Cases of Canine Distemper

For Distemper after giving the NDV to the body which is the first step, then you must treat the dog for Pneumonia as well with Baytril of 0.5cc and Penicillin G 1.0cc combined into one syringe twice a day for 7 days. After that the dog will be OK body wise. It is the CSF that everyone has to worry about. From Onset of symptoms of the Disease the Virus will breach the barrier usually from day 8 and the Vet will have to do the CSF Tap in giving anti-shock meds first and putting the dog to sleep so it not move and give 0.1cc of NDV and 0.2cc of Saline to flush the NDV from the Needle hub, at the Foramen Magnum ( cerebral Cranial Cavity which is at the bottom base of the Skull direct in line with the Spinal cord).

I hope this answers all your concerns. If you are not a VET please do not do any of the above unless there is a qualified person to do these proceedures.

The last question is yes you can give the NDV to the CSF to dog as long as they are past the 8th day from Onset of the symptoms of the Disease.

To officially confirm you must do this one specific test to make sure the dog has Distemper and it is as follows:

The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells.

Any medical person can tell you how to get cells from the bladder. Urinary catheter. Empty bladder flush with saline and collect some of the last saline. Spin down the saline and remove the cells. Place on slide and dry stain with diff-quick. Very common stain used by most medics or lab people who use medical microscopy. Everyone? I should hope so. Very fast, very cheap, very accurate for Dx of distemper. If present then Distemper. If negative then either kennel cough or respiratory Herpes.

Understand this well this is the only test that is most important that determines if the animal is infected with Distemper.

The other test you need done is the blood test to see what the WBC count is. Distemper will hit the bone marrow and the count can go very low. The only other Disease that hits the bone marrow is the Parvo Strain both the standard strain and the new more powerful Parvo F strain (which kills dogs quickly) and that treatment along with the antibiotics is Tamiflu which stops both of them.

All the other Diseases does not hit the bone marrow.

[gemmaashford]

Thanks for your e-mail. The only vet that we have here is 4 hours away. I take dogs there every wednesday but last week, we took a dog with confirmed Distemper whom is not eating and is not walking He was sent away and we were told to wait a week before starting vaccinations. They have never heard of NDV. I have already read your other posts and asked them last week. They don't speak good English. Will they understand your instructions? Also what is CSF?

Thank You.

[Daveyo]

Your most welcome. I understand your in Thailand. Where abouts is your location???? I too am in Thailand and will be only here for less than 23 more months. After this I will return back to USA, and settle somewhere in Kentucky.

Most VETS never heard of NDV being used on dogs with Canine Distemper because it is not yet in the medical journals. Me and another Doctor are in the process of doing just that, and it will take a bit longer etc. The CSF means Cerebral Spinal Fluid. CNS means Central Nervous System. CSF tap means Cerebral Spinal Fluid Tap. Similar to like drawing blood from a vein. Well this draws out spinal fluid which is clear and extreme care has to be taken when doing this and also not get air into the system. A very delicate procedure. That is why I said before only a Qualified VET that has this experience and the equipment can do this the correct way. One mistake can render a dog paralyze or even kill them.

Doing the NDV into the CSF is extremely new a proceedure, and very little is known at this point of time. One of the things that is now known it stops the progression of the virus inside the CSF and the brain. This is most important if any animal is going to have a chance to live. Otherwise without this, the animal is guaranteed a Death Sentence, once the virus breaches the barrier from the body to the spinal cord system. Basically what this does is it causes a Mexican Standoff and the virus is neutralized but not eliminated so it cannot do anymore damage to the animal. So now basically two antibodies are in the CSF and this will be a perpetual standoff inside the CNS for the life of the dog and the dog will be ok and normal like everything else. It is like going into a one way vault door and once you enter such you cannot get back out.

As to the body part once the dog has the NDV, the virus is killed off, and it changes the c-4 humoral system to C4-25 humoral system which the cytokines is inside and the dog is immune for life against the disease. The titer count will be like 1/1600. It will not most likely ever need another Distemper shot again. Any future standard vaccinations, do not give it any more distemper vaccine so avoid it like it was the plague. It is very hard in Thailand to find Vaccines without Distemper in it. Now the Dhhp has it split up, Parvo with Corona, Rabies is by itself. Other than that the options is few.

Also if you gave the dog any NDV into the CSF, DO NOT GIVE IT ANY MODIFIED LIVE VIRUS PARVO VACCINE SHOTS. Parvo vaccine opens the barrier, and you can have many problems and especially neuro might begin. So also AVOID any modified live virus Parvo vaccines. You can give the killed virus version only like maybe 4 -6 months later if the dog is not experiencing any neuro problems. Only two vaccine shots of the killed virus should protect the dog sufficiently as needed and then leave the rest of the scheduled future shots of Parvo alone. Don't give it any more after this point. Finding any killed Parvo virus version is very hard here in Thailand as well. They have it in USA.

If anything the best you can do is find Caniffa in Thailand. Parvo with corona being separate, (killed version only) Rabies is by itself. After that no others are needed besides finding Pneumodog which protects agains parainfluenza and kennel cough and is in injectible form.

If the dog should ever get the Parvo disease, don't panic. Treat it immediately with the proper procedure, giving it tamiflu along with the other antibiotics and fluids and the dog should make it OK. After that the dog is immuned against Parvo more likely for life.

As of me, here I have 2 bonifided doctors from Kesarset University in Bangkok as witnesses, 4 doctors from the Animal Agriculture Department as witnesses, plus the one Doctor here who did the CSF for me, plus the usual lay people, and myself and the Doctor from USA who know that the NDV does work. They could not believe it at first but truly now they believe. The recovery from it astonished them so much it blew their minds.

For a long time researchers and VETS and many other people have been trying to figure out a way to stop Distemper. They have tried most everything including you and even the vitamin route, or herbal route. All of that to no avail to save dogs. All the credit goes to Dr. Sears. He is the one that figured it out, both for the body and for the CNS, and even came up with a serum procedure which is better and it really does do the job as expected. The CSF tap procedure only began last year and I am the first person to have taken such chance under the guidance of Dr. Sears. It worked. And that is why I got two dogs today still alive right here with me, and if not for that tap, they would have expired back in October of 2007. These two dogs had neurological problems resulting from Canine Distemper. The CSF was confirmed with very high titers of Distemper in the fluid. All bonifide and certified and true to form. The research and experiments on this matter is still ongoing.

I have been working very closely with this Doctor ever since September of 2007. We have made great strides and hopefully this continues as time moves on.

I hope this is informative to you and for whatever purpose you deem necessary.

[gemmaashford]

Thank You for your information. It is very interesting but unfortunately I have not found a vet that is able to do this. I am in Sangklaburi (Kanchanaburi district) Is that anywhere near you? Would I be able to send somebody to you for training? We have started up an animal clinic here and are doing what we can (www.thaianimalsanctuary.org.uk) ..however, we have no vet here and the nearest vet that we go to in Kanchanaburi have said that they cannot do anything. I would be happy to come myself, or send a vet from Kanchanaburi to you to learn about the procedure.
I also believe that we have had a dog misdiagnosed and that he is going to die soon. Do you know what could be wrong with him? I found him when he was about 1 month old and thought that he was just malnourished and dirty. I fed him and cleaned his eyes and he improved. He could stand if prompted for about 3 minutes. After a week he started having foam from his mouth occasionally and In 2 weeks, he has physically got worse and now cannot stand or use his legs at all and sometimes can't lift his head. It is purely physical as he eats and looks around, makes sounds etc and doesn't foam at the mouth anymore. The vet in Kanchanaburi said that he probrably had distemper and has now lost use of his body. He has however had no spasms and seems too young to have survived Distemper He is now having slight breathing difficulties. Do you have any ideas what it could be? I found an american tick on his neck when I first found him..maybe it's a disease from the tick or MS? I don't know! He also had a fat belly in the last 2 days so I gave him a tablet against worms.

Thanks Gemma.
[moderator note: e-mail address has been removed]

[Daveyo]

You need to bring that dog to Nakhon Sawan ASAP. There is a VET here that can do the tap, and the problem is right now there is no NDV available. If you can find some vials of NDV please get 50 of them and I will pay for it here. You can call me at [moderator note: phone number has been removed] when you get to town. We can meet at the Big C here in the food court area. Let me know if it is all possible getting the NDV. That dog needs to have the tap down very soon and quickly. Also for the body as well. It has Distemper Right now the disease is causing paralysis. The dog can survive if given this vaccine as soon as possible.

Please rush back to me with your answer. I won't have my phone until tommorrow. The CPU on the phone got fried out.

So write me the message here quickly and we can set things up. I will take you to that VET. But we need to have the NDV and you need 1,000 Baht for the tap deal.

[gemmaashford]

I have given the dog some Oxytetracycline injections and it has improved- though it is still paralysed. It would take us 7 hours to drive to you and I don't know where I can get the drug as the vet in Kanchanaburi is my only contact and they have never heard of it. Are you sure it has Distemper? The vet said that it has the end of Distemper as it is not having ceisures. If this is true, then will the NDV help?
Your number has been erased by the website. Can you send it to my e-mail? {moderator note: e-mail address has been removed}
Thanks.

[gemmaashford]

Somebody has put 10 vaccines that I bought against Distemper into the freezer. Are they useless now?

[Daveyo]

What vaccines???? The NDV???? NDV is freezed dried. Freezer is best here in Thailand. Just don't put the saline solution or try to freeze up liquid vaccines or the vials will crack. A good standard cold refrigerator kept to around 9C or 40 degrees temp the vaccines are good for 5 years even though the expiration date on them says 2-3 years. Watch that manufacturing date closely. Many in Thailand like to sell vaccines close to expiration. Get the most recent manufacturing date and your safe.

[gemmaashford]

No, just vaccines against Distemper for some dogs here that don't yet (to my knowledge) have the disease. It says on the bottles "do not freeze" It is a vaccine with 2 bottles- one wet and one dry that must be mixed before administering. Sorry that I can't be more specific as I don't have the vaccines with me at this time. I am going to the vet in Saiyok (just outside of Kanchanaburi) again tomorrow morning. I will write my telephone number in letters (so the website will not erase it!) zero, eight, four, three, one, nine, nine, one, eight, three. Feel free to call me. I would love to come and see and learn about the NDV procedure.
Gemma.