Canine Distemper

[labbymom]

Margo is a 1-2 year old lab mix that was recued from the shelter with "kennel cough". She has not responded to oral doxycycline for 10 days or Baytril for 2 days. The question of distemper was raised. I live in Orange County, California and I cannot find one vet to perform the diagnostic bladder test for distemper or help give the NDV vaccine. They want to do blood tests and take 3 weeks to repeat to make the diagnosis. Margo will probably be dead or very ill by then. HELP!

JTS

[Daveyo]

Hi JTS

I am Daveyo and read of your plea and request. I can provide you the help you need and you should go to my site at caninedistemper dot proboards dot com and sign in. From there I can provide you the names and contacts who can be of assistance to you.

I hope to see you there. I know it is sad that these VETS do not even know Biology 101 in spite of going to a VET school. So many inept VETS on this planet.

I hope to see you there, and will respond immediately. OK

Daveyo

[labbymom]

Daveyo,
Thanks so much for your speedy reply. I tried to find you at proboards before, but I'm evidently not too skilled at blogs or message boards. Thanks for the instructions. I was able to access your site and the wealth of helpful information. The vaccine supply distributor has a NEW Newcastle disease vaccine La Sorta strain which is different than the one listed at your board. I cannot tell if it comes with a diluent or not. It says 1 bottle is 1000 doses. Would the dosing be the same? 0.1cc per pound. Is there a max dose that you would give? For a 90lb dog would I really use 9cc?

I don't know if I am going to be able to get Margo help if she really does have distemper as she is under the care of the rescue organizations designated vet, but I'm going to try to take away as many excuses not to try the treatment with NDV vaccine as possible. I'm going to order the vaccine as soon as you tell me which one and have it on hand so if they say they don't know how to get it I can pull it out and say "no problem, here it is." I hope we can make that list of vets willing to treat with NDV vaccine grow.

Thank you for your dedication and taking the time to help.

Joan

[kb4541]

I'm going through the same issue right now as well. Two weeks ago, I adopted a dog from a shelter who also got fixed prior to me getting her at Houston Humane Society. When I got her, she was still a little drugged up from the surgery so her symptoms didn't start until about 1.5 days after I got her. It started with sneezing. At first, I just thought to myself that I had never seen a dog sneeze like this. I talked to as many people as I could about it, then went back to the animal shelter I got her from and they helped me out tremendously. Of course, like you mentioned, they thought kennel cough and I was getting her treated with antibiotics. She seemed to keep getting worse even though being on medication for 5 days. At this point, I took her to another vet and they said upper respitory infection and that she had giardia. I had also seen worms, which isn't uncommon for a shelter dog to have. I got more antibiotics for giardia, worms, and the upper respitory infection and a steriod shot. At first, she seemed to have a little more energy than quickly went down hill with sneezing, coughing, dry heaving, bad diarhea, green eye discharge, and throwing up. I finally had come to a point shortly after taking her to the second vet, and she ws getting worse after 7 days of antibiotics and a steroid shot. The animal shelter actually took her in for an over night watch and took her to another vet for a second opinion. Unfortunatly, the vet had thought distemper and wanted to euthanize her that night. The animal control supervisor had said no to that, and that she wasn't convinced she had distemper, but thought maybe that she had kennel cough really bad and since she has a weak immune system because her original owners didn't have her vaccinated and she had just been spayed.

So with all of that, she just got the test and she is now in a foster home with a lady in a neighboring city who knows and understands sick dogs because shes been doing this her whole life. In 10 days we will get the second test and know the results.

With Lacy, the dog, it seems like she will have a really good half/or full day and then she relapses. She is finally keeping her food down again and is having solid stool which is really good. I have been finding that there isn't a lot of stuff out there online, and just beware that vets are quick to want to euthanize, but there are alternatives and it may not be distemper. I found with reading your post that it's nice to know someone else out there has gone/is going through the same thing your going through. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster with Lacy, the sick dog, and my 16 week old puppy who I have to watch now for symptoms. He is already sneezing.

I'm in Texas, but if you need any help, I would be more than willing to talk to the animal control people and see if they have any connections with CA folks, or just do some research online for resource groups.

I hope Margo is feeling better at this point.

[Daveyo]

Hi Kb

What is your status on your dog now on Lacy and on the young pup. If the pup is sneezing, check the temps, and do the bladder test. I know the uretha is too small. If you want the dog is old enough for the NDV just barely.

You can inject to the pup doing the body injection and this hopefully will be inside the 6 day window. Don't play games with this disease at all. Ok If wrong no problem if correct your ahead of the disease and stopped it before it got to the CNS.

As of Lacy start the NDV process now. Do the body first and then get that CNS tap done. This dog is beyond the first 6 day window.

You can find me at caninedistemper dot proboards dot com and if you need more information everything you need to know is there for you.

Write back

Daveyo

[Daveyo]

Hi Joan, yes that is correct Lacy will need 9.0cc of NDV if the dog weighs 90 pounds. 1.0cc for every 10 pounds. OK

As of the pup, like I said do the body injection now while your inside the 6 day window to stop it before it gets to the CNS. Don't play games on Distemper. If wrong no problem as it does not harm the animal, but if right your ahead of the game.

Write back and let me know the latest status

Daveyo

[kb4541]

I got an update today with Lacy at her foster moms house. She is doing better and trying to play in her yard, and barks at the cats next door. She is still coughing every 2-3 hours which is a great improvement. Her stool is now solid again and she hasn't thrown up and is eating all of her food. The lady also said that she hasn't had any mucus coming from her nose or eye build up. Lacy has had the first of two tests to test for the disease. She goes back to the Vet on this Wednesday.

As far as Danger, the puppy, I took him to the vet on Friday and they started him on Clavamox. He has had two of three boosters for distemper and all other vaccines, so if they were to do the test he would most likely have a false positive even if he didn't have Distemper. He goes back to the vet in the week. So far he is sneezing less and his energy is back up.

[labbymom]

Daveyo,

I have lost control of Margo's care since I took her to the vet that the lab rescue organization uses. They will only release information to the rescue coordinator. She called me tonight and said that Margo looked the same as yesterday. The blood tests have been sent off and she is on IV antibiotics. These will probably not yield definitive results as Margo was just vaccinated 4/13. I spoke to the coordinator about NDV and she had read some posts on it as well. I am going to order some tomorrow from Jeffers. Jeffers has Poulvac Newcastle B 1000 that you had, but also listed a new Newcastle-La Sota vaccine. Probably should order the Poulvac one, right?

Do you have a vet in the USA that has actually tried the treatment with NDV even though skeptical that would be willing to talk to the vet taking care of Margo? Maybe, they would be more willing to try NDV when hearing from another vet who is still in practice and has actually tried the treatment that they could ask questions. I am only a crazy OB/GYN who thinks Margo has distemper and believes NDV is worth a try.

All the time spent researching distemper has not been a waste even if I cannot save Margo. I have made contact with 2 vets who seemed open to helping with the body cure. The CNS treatment is a big challenge. I know where to get the NDV vaccine.

I have two 5 year old labs of my own who have had all of their vaccines and who did not come in direct contact with Margo. Margo stayed in the garage in a pen. I treated the garage floor with bleach, tossed the water bowel and food bowel she ate from, washed the towels she slept on, wiped the inside of the car with clorox wipes, discarded the seat cover that Margo coughed and sneezed on. So, if I get past 14 days without my dogs showing any symptoms, I should be OK, right?

Despite all the obstacles you face, please keep up the fight to collect the data to prove to the skeptics that NDV works against canine distemper! (The Earth is round, not flat!)

Thanks, again.

Joan

PS: KB, good luck with your pup. As far as finding a vet to treat with NDV. Ed Bond from NY on face book gave my a lead for someone in California. Maybe he can help you find someone in Texas.

[Daveyo]

Hi KB

As far as the lab tests go KB time is of essence and it does no good. The second best option to confirm Distemper albeit of doing the bladder smeart test which is 99% accurate is do the MRI Scan of the spinal cord and the Brain. If lesions show up, this is clinical that the disease is present in the dog and you can get this answer in one day. Once confirmed then do the treatment immediately with the body first and then the CNS

If the dog already had two shots in them hopefully those shots were given when the dog was HEALTHY. If the dog was or is sick, vaccine shots do not work at all, and in most cases speeds up the problem 10 fold. Dogs will react to it.

Keep in mind Distemper in dogs their energy goes up and down like a yo yo. Do not be confident it is well unless you know and can confirm it is well OK.

Ok keep me posted

Daveyo

[Daveyo]

Hi Joan

Yes there are some VETS currently doing the entire procedure and are in practice as well. If you go to my site at caninedistemper dot proboards dot com I will provide you the contacts and also there is a list of VETS doing it as well. Dr. Mueller in Atlanta is one of them and at the moment I do believe there is one or two of them in Texas.

I see here you just vaccinated the animal on april 13th??? Not good when they are sick as vaccine does not work on a sick animal, and in fact you can accellerate the problem 10 fold when they react to that vaccination shot while sick.

I do believe I was very specific on the Newcastles vaccine. Ignore the new version and the other one as those two do not apply for Distemper cases. Get Modified Live Only. Yes order the Poulvac one as described to you.

Any dog who is fully vaccinated and in good health you need not worry about it coming close to a infected animal as the vaccinated dog is supposed to be immuned and protected. However it is not a bad idea to practice prevention but don't go overboard on it. The only time you need to really be totally concerned is if an unvaccinated animal gets close to the infected one as it can jump to a new host.

Thank you very much for your undying support. I do appreciate it, and yes it is a huge battle which really taxes me but I will continue to fight and hopefully get this disease cure into the books before I expire from this planet permanently.

Instead of waiting forever for those lab tests may I suggest to you to do the following. Get the MRI SCAN done on the spinal cord and the brain and if any lesions show up this is clinical proof that the virus is indeed in the CNS and you can commence immediate treatment to cure the animal ASAP. No need to wait for those blood tests as they are very unreliable. Never trust this kind of test for this particular disease. The only other sure fire confirmation is to do the bladder smear test which is 99% accurate provided it is done within a reasonable time before all obvious clinical signs show up. OK

You mentioned about the 14 days, actually the real clinical evidence begins at that date, and become quite obvious by day 20. So best you add another 6 more days to that figure.

The disease begins and enters the CNS from day 7 onward. It takes about 5 days for the clinical symptoms to begin to show from the CNS which starts with the eyes. By day 16 it becomes more apparent. Understand. Then it goes to the pads which begin to harden around day 20.

If you see these symptoms especially the very beginning of onset which is fevers going 104.5 degrees and above remember don't panic which is your natural reaction. Be calm because now you know that there is a cure and you can handle it and take care of it. Sound good. If you got a dog having a temp reading of 105 which is average, the low end 104.5 and higher which is 106, your in good shape as this cure can take care of the problem quickly and you can prevent any damage and also prevent it from entering the CNS as the virus gets killed before it sends out the army troops. Basically you knock out the main headquarters and that General instantly if you do it within the first 6 days of onset.

However do confirm it is distemper by doing the bladder smear to be certain. The other point is that can be a good tip off, Kennel Cough and Respiratory Herpes will not have those very high temps. The temps for these two will be around 103 to 104 tops. OK So in a sense the temps itself can be somewhat diagnostic itself. Also feel the ears of the animal. If it is very hot to the touch, take a temp reading right away and don't hesitate. If it is kinda warm more than normal be on notice and do some temp readings for a day or two and put that dog on the watch list and monitor it carefully. OK.

The other signs are sudden stool changes and Distemper dogs poo really does smell very bad and it is soupy as heck. Ok.

Nice military description. Hope it helps eh.

Ok keep me posted

Daveyo