Canine Distemper

[Giftbearer]

I just wrote a long in-depth description of my situation and lost it all because it timed out and asked me to sign in, so I'll try to summarize really fast.

I adopted a puppy from a shelter who is 3 months old and they sent her home with Clavomax which after a week did not do anything. I took her to the vet yesterday because she's coughing, sneezing, and having trouble breathing, not eating, and has an eye infection. The shelter sent her home with Propectin for diarrhea and Neo-Poly-Bac for her eye none of which really had much impact on her symptoms except maybe the diarrhea.

The vet recommended she stay over the weekend and is doing a Distemper Antibody Test and giving her fluids by IV, Vitamin B 12, an injection of Cephazolin, taking X-rays, etc.

He did not seem aware of any treatment if it does turn out to be distemper just said they would do what they're doing now "supportive care".

Is the antibody test the same as the brush border smear or is that different?

How can my vet and I get in touch with you and Dr. Sears if we need to go ahead with this?

Is this Newcastle Disease Vaccine LaSorta Strain readily available in case my vet needs it urgently to save her life?

Thanks for your help!

Sincerely,

Pippit

[Daveyo]

sorry for being gone for a few days. Someone needed my help desperately and I had to try to return a child back to his mother. The kidnapping saga is still ongoing, but slowly getting results.

As to your questions

Yes the Newcastles Disease Virus Vaccine is available usually at a agricultural poultry store. Farmers who raise chickens get this vaccine regularly. You can also find this by hitting the phnoe book and asking the agriculture department for the nearest place that sells the vaccine. Don't tell them its for a dog, otherwise you will be inviting a huge amount of questions. Just say you have chickens period.

The proper method for determining acute Canine distemper again is as follows and its 100% accurate and you can have the results in about 30 minutes. here it is>

The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells which are carmine red and para nuclear.

Any medical person can tell you how to get cells from the bladder. Urinary catheter. Empty bladder flush with saline and collect some of the last saline. Spin down the saline and remove the cells. Place on slide and dry stain with diff-quick. Very common stain used by most medics or lab people who use medical microscopy. Everyone? I should hope so. Very fast, very cheap, very accurate for Dx of distemper. If present then Distemper. If negative then either kennel cough or respiratory Herpes or Toxoplasmosis.


If the VET does not know what or how the virus looks like please direct the vet to go to my site at [moderator note: website address has been removed] register there and look up canine distemper. I have the pics of the disease there.

Get in touch with me here or at my site.

Don't get the dog wet, or give it a bath. Stay away from vitamins. It does no good against this virus. Also do not vaccinate this dog at present time or whenever a dog is sick. The dog vaccine will not work when they are sick.

I need some data on your dog, age, vaccinations??? breed, how long has this been going on, and weight of animal, and the WBC information. Provide me this info please.

Daveyo

[Giftbearer]

Hi Daveyo,

Thanks for getting back to me. I hope your situation is resolving.

Carmella is 3 months old (at least that's what they told me at the shelter I got her from). Apparently she was vaccinated for distemper in May, and had a Rabies vaccine on 7/3/08 . She was also spayed on 7/3/08. The shelter never documented her weight and there were several vte hcecks that were simply documented as "normal" but she is obviously underweight, so it appears they tried to conceal that she was sick in order to get her adopted.

They sent her home with Clavomox and Propectin as well as Poly Bac ointment after I noticed she was coughing and had diarrhea just before leaving.

I am not really sure what breeds she is mixed with but she's reddish-brown and looks as though she may have some Whippet, Greyhound, and/or Basenji in her, possibly red Doberman, and a little German Shepherd possibly. ( I don't see anyplace to upload a picture but you can see her on my blog at http://artlifenewsblog.blogspot.com . I've been taking alot of pictures of her. She has a pale chocolate mast around her nose that extends under her chin and that's what makes me think she may have Doberman in her. Her nose is pointy, but she has eyes and ears shaped kind of like a basenji and her snout does not seem very long. Really she looks very much like a Dingo (although I doubt those exist in the US, or at least not very often).

The vet weighed her after I brought her in in one week when the Clavomox didn't seem to be helping and said she was 14 Lbs. So with about 2 days hospitalization he put her on a second antibiotic (Cephalexan) twice a day, and something else as a cough suppressant.

He told me at that point that she had a 50/50 chance of making it and that it appeared that she might have distemper; that it was more than just kennel cough. She was barely eating when I brought her in. He gave her an IV with Vitamin B12 and fluids, and started her on soft high protein food.

He was not able to get the bladder smear although I gave him the printed out info about it because he said it was too risky in her condition to sedate her, and he tried without sdation and she would not stand still enough for him to get it.

She seems somewhat better now after another week on antibiotics, but seems to have plateaued. He is going to try again to get the bladder smear on Wednesday now that she is not in quite as dire shape as last week.

One other thing I notice is that she has bad breath uncharacteristic of a puppy, almost like something is rotting.

She's been eating two cans of the prescription canned food a day but won't eat much more than that and she does not seem to be gaining much if any weight back despite her increased apetite. Each can is 5.5 Oz.

Although I take her out every few hours she seems to still be peeing on the floor in between, so I'm not sure if this in incontinence or just normal for a puppy especially after an increase in her intake.

What is concerning him is that although he found no cells in the other smears from the conjunctiva and the vagina, her antibodies have increased in those two tests from what the level was in her antibody test. He told me it could be from the vaccine she had in May but is unlikely because usually all antibodies would have cleared.

I was able to find an e-mail and phone number on the internet by looking for Dr. Sears on Google and my vet has e-mailed him and is waiting to hear from him. He said that he thought he would have to get some additional equipment in order to mix up the stuff in the office.

Will the pre-made vaccine work just as well?

What signs should we look for to know when it is geting close to the window when she needs to be treated quickly? I am not entirely she if she has the disease when it started, but my vet seems to think it would still be in the early stages.

Carmella is still coughing and sometimes coughing up stuff onto the floor although not as constantly as last week, and her breathing seems to be somewhat labored when she's lying down. It seems as though she still has fliud in her lungs.

I'll check out your website and also print out information for my vet.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on her situation.

Sincerely,

Pippit

[Daveyo]

Based on your description here, all the signs point to Distemper. Here is the signs you need to watch for now

Your dog is past the 6 day window

The signs are hardening of the pads, goop in the eyes, mucus coming from the nose, very soupy stools, labored breathing> Pneumonia, having a withdrawn attitude, eats very little drinks very little enough for them to survive

Have the VET do the full blood count and I am interested in the WBC reading. If it is low that is another confirmation.

Also the fevers appear in the beginning stages usually the first 3-4 days from start of the disease.
The fevers will be very high near 106 degrees.

This disease itself is very contagious to other dogs not vaccinated. It is a airborne and contact type disease. Keep other dogs not fully vaccinated away from your animal ABSOLUTELY.

You mentioned 14 pounds > Ok here is the amount of Newcastles Disease Virus Vaccine you will need to give to the body. 14 pounds equals to 1.4cc. 0.1cc for every pound and if between add another 0.1cc. The Newcastles vaccine comes in dry form and with the diluent. Take 1.5cc of diluent and put into the vaccine bottle. Shake it a bit, and then take the syringe and needle and take out all the contents of it. Then> Find the blood vein preferably on the front leg. First shave the animals leg where the vein is located just above their paw wrist and below their elbow. Then get a rubber strap and tie it above the elbow around their thigh. Twist the leg a bit and look for the vein that comes up. Then take your syringe and go in sideways parallel to the leg and draw back the plunger to see if you get blood into the syringe. If you do, then inject the vaccine, and when nearly done, release the rubber strap. Then sterile the area.

Cure for Distemper will happen in between 12-24 hours. Depends on the dogs genetics. This cure is only for the body portion.

After this you must treat for the pneumonia. Have the vet do the following> 0.5cc of Baytril (nothing else) mix it with 1.0cc of Penicillin G together and inject IM at the rear of the animal EVERY 12 HOURS - TWICE A DAY - FOR 7 DAYS. Don't change or substitute for any other Dx. Must follow my instructions to the dot of the i and the cross of the T. Understand.

On day 10 from the body injection you have to get the VET to do the CSF tap. This virus is now only in the CNS. It is trap inside. The vet has to do this procedure at the foramen Magnum (cerebral cranial cavity area) the bottom part area of the skull (in the back). DO NOT DO ANY OTHER PLACE ON THIS DOG. Before doing this the vet must have I.V. solution, Saline, two syringes with needles, ANTI-SHOCK MEDS which is given based on the weight of the dog, and anesthesia. This dog must be put to happy happy land sleeping soundly and not move at all. Oh and a razor to shave the back area behind the skull of the hair.

You will need a new vial of Newcastles Vaccine. Now this is based on breed sizes. Toy, Small, Medium, Large and Giants. Your vet has to determine what breed size this animal is. If between mix breeds, go to the next size breed up. NOT DOWN.

Then take the formula that I have posted on my website print it out and give to the vet. He must follow those instructions and not deviate from it. [moderator note: website address has been removed] and look for the Medical protocol giving the amounts doing the CSF taps.

You can give the body injection if you know how to use syringes and needles, and if not any medical person or nurse can do it for you. Or the vet . Up to you.

ON THE CSF >>>ONLY THE VET CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!!!! Do not attempt to do this procedure or you will kill your dog. Understand. Only a VET can perform this procedure because your dealing with the CNS system. One mistake and its all over.

After the procedure of the CSF is done, I hope the VET can save the extracted spinal fluid of at least 2.0cc and send to the lab in America to confirm and test for specific Distemper antibodies. If there and confirmed your dog had the disease. This is for his and your medical records.

Once the NDV is in the CNS the cure for your dog will be 24 hours-36 hours depending on the genetics of your dog.

Be advised that you must watch your dog for the next 45 days. What you will see gradually any signs of damage that was caused by the virus and it will show up. Don't worry. Normal expectations. At about 50 to 60 days, the recovery from such damage will begin. It might take up to a year.

Damage will be related to the Myelin and Schwaan cells. This virus caused the deadly C4 T cells to attack it. Once the NDV is inserted, this vaccine stops the attack and neutralizes it, wipes out the virus and cancels out the ODE on the dog. Old Dog Encephalitis > which was the virtual death sentence the dog had. It will live

Once all is done > your dog is immuned for life both the CNS and the body from CANINE DISTEMPER ONLY. No more distemper shots again.

Your VET is welcomed to do a Titer check. Don't be surprised to see very high readings of like 1/1600. Normal is 1/30 to 1/40. OK

Then your dog will have a normal happy lifespan. How long??????? Depends on the breed of dog.

You will need to vaccinate your dog on the other diseases so heed to only one warning as I tell you here.

DO NOT VACCINATE YOUR DOG WITH LIVE PARVO VACCINE. Use only KILLED PARVO VIRUS VACCINE.

The rest is OK concerning the live vaccine.

Live Parvo vaccine causes severe reactions to dogs having previous distemper disease, or even on normal dogs who get their regular shots. NEVER COMBINE DISTEMPER WITH PARVO LIVE VIRUS VACCINE.

Keep both separated. I could care less what the med manufactures say since they know the danger involved here. They will not tell you this part but the VET knows.

From this point on, you vaccinate your dog once every 3 years except for Distemper. You will not need distemper vaccine ever again.

OK.

I will be here and on line.

The child kidnapping was resolved today, around noon time. The woman gave a bit of resistance but finally gave up the child. The child has been returned to the natural mother and they now are on their way home. Thank God all ended up well.

Very tired during this drama. yes very tired. Whew.

Need some sleep

Daveyo

be back tomorrow

[Giftbearer]

Hi Daveyo,

Thanks so much for your detailed instructions. I am about to print them out for the vet now and will fax it to him tomorrow.

I have never given a shot in my life so would rather have the vet do that because I don't want anything to go wrong. I have a friend who is a nurse, but she no longer lives close enough to come over.

I'll see if I can get the figures for you of Carmella's white blood count.

Carmella's pads look OK but the main thing I'm noticing is she does have some trouble with steps and seems kind of slow-moving for a puppy her age.

She definitely has pneumonia, as that was the first sign I had that something was wrong that led me to take her to the vet. She coughs and has some difficulty breathing and the first week I had her she was hacking up flegm onto the floor in spots. That is alot less now with the antibiotics but she still hacks up stuff sometimes. Sometimes she seems better and at other times a little worse, back and forth. It's as if she is really fighting it and there is a battle going on and sometimes she's winning and sometimes she's losing.

The vet said when he saw her in the office after she'd had a week's worth of Clavomox that it appeared as if her fever had been higher but that it was coming down at the time he measured it. I think he said it was 102 that day.

It looks like you answered some of my questions here that I asked on the other site. So it sounds like she probably does have it in the CNS from what you're telling me and therefore needs both the body shot and the CSF tap procedure. I'll let my vet know. I hope he can get ahold of the Newcastle vaccine soon.

I'm glad the child was returned. When you mentioned it before I'd thought maybe it was your child that got kidnapped. Do you work as a police detective? It sounds both stressful and rewarding at the same time.

[Daveyo]

Nope not a cop and never will be. I assisted an Indonesian woman to get her child back after the father abandoned him in Thailand, because he is blacklisted. Anyway the father is a psycho and a dangerous one who likes to wreak destruction to other peoples lives.

So she came to me for help and when he found out he got his bimbo mistress etc to take the child away and hide him. Went to the police and had to negotiate the exchange since the father kept trying to figure out a way to get the child out of Thailand and escape so he can get it back to Aussie territory. Tough life huh. Anyway the kid was finally returned after giving a lot of resistance at first and then gave up. The father is a con man, and a sex predator, and a fake military wannabee and definitely a forger of documents of all makes. Even made a University Degree etc, only to find out there never was a University so named existed. Basically a convicted felon. Feel free to go to this site http//www.anzmi.net and look for McCarthy. Everything is there about this dude. Got a history of violence, illegal use of handcuffs, illegal discharge of firearms around children and even sex abuse. Yet this psycho still walks free around planet earth. Came to Thailand saying he was clean and was a Volunteer Tourist Police Officer. What a way to go and Australia likes to protect convicted criminals by not revealing their true real backgrounds due to a law and a act they have specific for rehabilitation for ex cons.


Anyway, >>>They are now clearing both sides of the border with immigrations so it will be a smooth transition when they leave hopefully by tomorrow.

Daveyo

[Giftbearer]

Hi Daveyo,

Wow! That sounds like a harrowing situation. I'm glad you stepped in to help that woman and her child. Alot of regular citizens these days don't step up to the plate like that. There is something sick about alot of societies that are soft on sex offenders and seem more worried about ruining their reputations than helping the victims.

I posted a few updates on Carmella on your forum, but will tell you the latest here also. I faxed the instructions to the vet this morning and heard back from him a little while ago. The receptionist had failed to give it to him. In fact I spoke with two of his receptionists to let them know how crucial it is that we jump right on this before any neurological damage takes place which could be irreversible. I bet they think I'm some pet fanatic so they just said they would give it to him right away and didn't. Usually in this part of town they have more problems with people who give up on their dogs too quickly.

The vet still was not able to get Dr. Sears to respond via e-mail. I gave him a phone number too that had a (661) area code. Is that his current number in case he needs to call him? I'm thinking that he must not know it's urgent unless he hears from a vet by phone, and that he gets alot of purely informational requests by e-mail (not all of which are time-limited/urgent like this, or he may get alot that are in end stage that have to be gotten to immediately). It looks like the website he used to have no longer exists.

If you can get ahold of him easier could you ask him to contact Dr. Norwood in Stone Mountain, GA. and that he's trying to consult with him on a dog? I would give you the phone number to his office but don't want to post it publicly. If you could give me your e-mail I could send it to you that way. It would be good if my vet could talk with him on the phone before tomorrow's appointment. I'm bringing Carmella in between 8:00 and 9:00 in the morning (Wed. July 23rd).

[Giftbearer]

Also, I did find a possible place to get the Newcastle Vaccine LaSota strain in Georgia. In case anybody else from Georgia needs it. There is a place called:
Merial Select, Inc.
P.O. Drawer 2497
Gainseville, GA. 30503
Phone: (770) 536-8787
fax: (770) 534-8558

They list something called a Nac No. which appears to be an order number: 11050321

[Daveyo]

Yes I have direct connection to Dr. Sears. Ok. Go to my site and give me that Doctors phone number and I will have Dr. Sears call him.

Your right about a lot of e-mail requests. He is selective.

Give it to me now if you can possibly do at my site.

Daveyo.

[Giftbearer]

Hi Daveyo,

More disease-progression last night. I left Dr. Norwood's number for you in my update this morning on your site in Carmella's thread.

Thanks so much for your help!

Sincerely,

Pippit