[janetreitman]

Last Friday, i took my 16 month old briard to the vet for his distemper/parvo booster - a 3 yr. shot. He was fine for a few days, and then on Tuesday began exhibiting weird symptoms - first diarrheah, and then a kind of twitching and snapping - not quite "chewing gum" but more of a snapping in the air, as if he were trying to catch some invisible flies. I have seen him do this before - several months ago, and I believe it was after he was neutered. It is scaring me to death, as our vet is saying that they believe it's a reaction to the vaccine that is temporary, but they can't be sure... I'm considering taking him to a specialist, though some people have told me to give him thuja - a homeopathic med - and see what happens, as dogs often exhibit these kinds of symptoms after their vaccines...

Anything you can offer in the way of advice/insight would be hugely appreciated. Thanks...

[Daveyo]

Your dog has all the characteristics of having possible Distemper. Snapping in the air is the same as the chewing gum syndrome. Your dog already showed the signs prior to this shot based on what I am reading here.

At the age of 16 months I am wondering if your dog was sick when it was younger. You need to do an immediate brush border smear test of the inside the lining of the bladder test. Most important to determine acute Distemper.

Please monitor your dog immediately and check the temp readings. If greater than 102.5 degrees, then it is Distemper. The other diseases that mimic will not climb over 102.5 degrees. Also watch the breathing very carefully. If it is heaving up and down hard like trying to get air into the lungs, this is one of the secondary signs.

What about the pads, or the eyes, any nasal discharge???

I need more information from you ASAP

Any dog getting Parvo with Distemper shots is asking for trouble. All vaccine manufacturers are aware of this problem. You must always keep both shots apart and never close together. Must be spread apart.

So please do the following immediately and find someone who can do this test. Very important.>>>

The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells which are carmine red and para nuclear.

Any medical person can tell you how to get cells from the bladder. Urinary catheter. Empty bladder flush with saline and collect some of the last saline. Spin down the saline and remove the cells. Place on slide and dry stain with diff-quick. Very common stain used by most medics or lab people who use medical microscopy. Everyone? I should hope so. Very fast, very cheap, very accurate for Dx of distemper. If present then Distemper. If negative then either kennel cough or respiratory Herpes or Toxoplasmosis.

I am worried about the CNS situation as you have described. Those symptoms are progressive but I need for you to get that test done and confirm it. OK

Write back as soon as you can. Sorry for the couple day late reply. Been very busy. While your at it better start trying to locate NDV of the LaSorta strain and weigh your dog and get the NDV of the required amount. Also get one more extra one in case you need to get that CSF tap done. Dose for the body is 0.1cc for every pound or 0.45kg. If between add another 0.1cc. Injection is done to the blood vein prefer front legs, direct. The CSF tap has to be done by a VET. You should be able to find the NDV at any agriculture poultry store or hit the phone books and call the agriculture department of where they may have some located near you. Tell them you have chickens and go get that NDV. OK

Daveyo

[janetreitman]

Hi there.

Well, Bode (our briard) went to his vet, and then to a neurologist as his vet was useless. First off, he does not have distemper -no temperature, no other symptoms, eyes normal, no cough, sneeze, in all respects a healthy dog. we were told though that he had "fly catcher" syndrome, which is a bit different than the chewing gum syndrome - possibly? - and that basically, he's having small, 1-second seizures that are idiopathic. this is HIGHLY upsetting to us as we have a pedigreed dog who was originally deemed show-quality (at about 9 months, his bite went slightly off, so - lucky for him - he is now spared the whole dog show circuit, but we got him at 10 months after his originaly family decided they couldn't show him.) At both his breeder's home and his first family's home, he was wonderfully cared for and fed a raw food diet, and they were very, very conscious of the vaccine issue. When we got him, we took him to a vet who is known for being holistically-minded. this problem started with his trip to that vet when he got neutered. it went away for about 6 months and then returned when he had his vaccine last week.

i had no idea that the parvo and distemper must be done separately - the vet said they were a combined vaccine, and i believe his very first vaccine was combined, too. his rabies will be in a few months - and like the distemper, that's a 3 year vaccine.

anyway, given this diagnosis we received, i'm not sure the test you recommended is necessary, but i'd be open to anything you might have to say if you think i'm wrong on that. he has an appt. with his doctor on tuesday of next week, and we intend on bringing up a bunch of these issues. right now, he's on phenobarbitol which hopefully will help with the mini-seizures. they are very slight, but they happen sometimes 8 times in a day.

Janet

[Daveyo]

Hi again I am Daveyo

Did you say here having seizures 8 times a day!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please have the vet do an immediate CSF tap and get some of the fluid tested right away for any distemper antibodies and any other antibodies that may be present in the CNS- pronto. Send it out emergency next day delivery to (if your in USA) to Antec Labs. Your VET should know where. It will take 2-3 days for them to confirm either a positive or negative in the CNS. If positive it is diagnostic either having acute distemper or some of the other diseases that are known. Antec labs will be able to tell you.


Those seizures are going to get worse and it will progress. Also please do that bladder test as well. Doing that bladder test you can get your answer in 20 minutes. It won't hurt but hopefully can put to rest if distemper is present or not since you mentioned those vaccine shots.



I remember some time ago and I am thinking on it now, but there was a case and a dog who had very similar symptoms and I am wracking my brain here. But which Disease was it??

I would suggest you get the NDV, as your precautionary measure because you might need it. It is about the only lifesaver you will have. NDV is known to turn off the deadly C4 T cells that cause damage and seizures. If not, you have to use a different medicine.

Also ask your doc to increase the dosage of pheno. That is about the only thing that might keep that dog going long enough for your test results.

If the seizures continue to progress more than this report or stronger, which I suspect it will, since Your at the 8 a day stage now. How much longer?????? unknown but that dog of yours is getting hit hard and the brain is getting damaged badly from each seizure hit. What you have is ODE known as Old Dog Encephalitis. Seizuring dogs usually expire within 14 days from onset of when it began, especially in Distemper cases, and the seizures of those dogs lasts much longer than mini seconds???? as you described. I only came across a dog who had this same problem the last 6 months and the problem was found and the cells inside causing the seizures was eliminated. The owner of this animal was kind enough to post it in the webside, and I cannot remember what name it was under as it was identified.

My problem right now is I cannot recall what disease it was let alone what it was that cured that problem. The answer from Antec probably will trigger and jar my memory.

Can I ask you something? When the dog goes into a mini seizure does it have a tendency to jerk backwards like back stepping????

I'd appreciate it if you can tell me this.


Daveyo