Canine Distemper

[GooberJLM]

A little background:
On Feb. 17th we adopted an 8 week old puppy from a local humane society. He was 1 in a litter of 13 that by the end of the 17th had ALL been adopted out. We noticed that evening that the puppy was sneezing and the next day had a runny nose. I thought nothing of it considering it just came from a shelter. On Feb 19th, I got a call from the humane society that 2 of the dogs in the litter were suspected of having distemper. They had the neurological symptoms (head tilting and circling, balance issues). I assume they euthanized these puppies and tissue samples were sent out and results for a confirmed diagnosis will be in early next week. I had taken my puppy to the vet and he seemed to think mine simply had a slight respiratory infection and prescriped clavamox. My dog has no of the other symptoms of distemper. There is no fever, no coughing, no eye dishcarge, no diarrhea, no vomiting, he is eating and drinking fine, and is very playful. These puppies DID receive their first Distemper vaccination 3 weeks ago (I know because mine is due for his second now). The shelter told me that if these 2 puppies have distemper than more than likely mine does as well since they were housed together. Has anyone ever seen a small puppy (he is only 8.5lbs at this point, and is a pit terrier/catahoula leopard dog mix) with only a runny nose and sneeze develop the neurological signs? Does distemper progress quicker in puppies this young than it would in an older dog? No one seems to have any answers only a wait and see. I have 3 small children and would hate for them to get attached to the dog only to have it die. We had to put our family dog to sleep last september and that was so hard on them. The shelter has left an open window to return the dog, but I don't want to do that if there isn't anything wrong. Can someone please give me more info?

[Daveyo]

Hi I am Daveyo

I read your story here. It is very likey that those 2 puppies that were returned to the shelter, had the reaction of Distemper caused by the vaccine being Distemper itself. Some dogs do react to this vaccine. It is highly unlikely that your dog got infected because you said it received its first shot which it passed without any problems. You can keep your dog and not return it. Ignore their request.

Now for your peace of mind please do this one specific test to make sure because this test is not affected by any vaccine given. It is clear and convincing and is 100% accurate.

Have the VET or some Medical Lab do this for you and call around in your area. Someone is able to do it. >>>>> The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells.

Any medical person can tell you how to get cells from the bladder. Urinary catheter. Empty bladder flush with saline and collect some of the last saline. Spin down the saline and remove the cells. Place on slide and dry stain with diff-quick. Very common stain used by most medics or lab people who use medical microscopy. Everyone? I should hope so. Very fast, very cheap, very accurate for Dx of distemper. If present then Distemper If negative then either kennel cough or respiratory Herpes.


Stay away from Clavamox for the time being. These VETS keep prescribing this antibiotic and in my opinion in most cases it is not necessary.

It is possible your dog might have Kennel Cough. Don't know but in any case if a dog IS SICK WITH SOMETHING DO NOT GIVE IT ANY VACCINE SHOTS.

You only give these shots when the dog is NOT SICK and when healthy. I hope you understand this very well.

They started giving the Vaccine shots a bit too early. Their problem. In puppies you start giving vaccine shots when they are either 7 weeks or 8 weeks old. They have maternal antibodies good until the 10th week.

In puppies do not give FULL DOSE SHOTS. Full dose shots are designed for 60 pound dogs, and it will give their immune system a terrible shock like it hits them with a brick and very hard for it to adjust.

For puppies give only a 1/4 dose to max 1/2 dose to build up their immunity. You need to build it up slowly. Now you already have one full shot down its system. You wait 3 weeks after that first shot.

Next shot give only 1/2 dose and then wait 10 days, and then give the next 1/2 dose by the 14th day.

After that wait another 10 days. Then give the third and final shot of 1/2 dose then wait 10 days and the last shot 1/2 dose and then your done.

YOU can only do this when the dog is HEALTHY AND NOT SICK SO REMEMBER THIS PART WELL.

For now give your dog either Baytril with Pennicillin G (0.5cc of Baytril mixed with Penicillin G of 1.0cc) > once a day for 7 days or Chloroamphenical injection of 1.0cc once a day for 3 days. This is a broad spectrum antibiotic and quite powerful itself. It will clear anything that the dog might have internally. It is also a very sensitive antibiotics and searches for bacteria etc.

If that test I gave you comes in negative, then your in the clear and on safe grounds peace of mind wise. If it comes positive then we will cross that bridge if needed. Don't panic because NDV will cure that problem if it is positive. Your dog will be just fine either way.

After the antibiotics are given then you wait at least 10 days minimum before thinking of resuming the Vaccination program.

While the dog is being given the antibiotics please continue to watch and observe the dog carefully for any abrupt changes. You can also take its temperature at least twice a day once during the morning and once during the evening to watch for Temperature Spikes putting the temp into the anus area for your reading. Distemper will shoot the temperatures up to 106 deg F. If you see it being around 102 deg to 103 deg then it has a small fever meaning it has either kennel or respiratory herpes infection. It is important to monitor that temp for the time being. OK Most dogs are in the 101 range or near 102. That is normal.

If you follow my instructions you will do just fine and the dog can come out healthy at the end and you feeling like big heart and happy and your kids as well and I hope that you and this dog can have a good relationship for all. I know losing a dog tears the family to ribbons. God Bless you.

Keep posting and let me know at least daily how your dog is doing and if possible give me the details here or at my site. If you wish to learn more about the diseases especially Distemper your are welcome to visit my site at [moderator note: website address has been removed] and in this site has a wealth of information with pictures and stories of how dogs got save. Over 600 have been saved. Too many to post into the web site. It only started and you need to simply register to get in. Ok so if you have any questions you can post here or there. I will be at both places to help people out when in need.

Take care for now.

PS Most VETS today have a very hard time in diagnosing Distemper because they don't see it that much anymore. It is still prevalent and even the simple test above which is the old fashion and most accurate test they do not even know how to do this one. So don't be surprised if you hear that the VET does not know, and ask them why they never were trained to do this simple easy test and you can have a distemper answer inside of 20 minutes. Cheap > fast > easy to do >and you got your answer!!!!! This method is one of the gold standards of medicine today and all VETS should know this but sadly these VETS are uneducated and trained poorly. Hence the clients which is you are caught in no mans land due to mis-diagnosing of diseases.

So ignore the kennel place outright. Just tell them your fine and move on and follow my instructions.

[dodd_nancy]

Daveyo , thank you for caring and the willingness to want to help , I too am in need for your advice, took my 2 year old Pom puppy to the vet last friday,I have his mother and father also , he and his mother started with a cough ,her eyes , nose and under her chin started crusting over and she would shake her head as if her ears where iching ,some one told me ear mites and kennal chough was the problem .here in Tulsa , the vet requires a nice sum ( thats been my case when I needed one ) any way now she don't get up she is so off balance and her head sways ,she still will eat If I feed her,I have to force water ,using a dropper putting it in the side of her mouth .I know she to far gone, RIGHT ???But my puppy he started witha cough and was impacted ,so i cleaned and trimed his rear end, then he started to act like it was hard to go #2 ,thought he might have a block or some thing? He still eats(with me putting the food up to him ,he drinks water ,and will slowly go out side to go to the bath rm .but he hurts alot ( mainly at night ) and yelps ,when you go to touch him or not ?( He and my husban are so very close) well the vet sent us home with the antibiotic you mentined before said he did'nt need any test he was sure my baby had Distemper he also sent amoxisiline drops for the mother ,I gave him one pill that same day,I didn't think he would make it through the next 2 night ,but after such a hard time and the pain of the first pill I started him with the drops instead he started to look a little better but seems to hurt to the touch .Any way my question to you is do we have any hope for his survival ??? and how long does a dog have befor you you know hein the clear , or how long do the suffer ( how long dose it take for Distemer to run its course ? ) and when do you know when to put them in GODs taxie to Haven ?? Sorry its late ,i hope Im not waisting your time and I'm making some sence . tha, thanks so much for all the help you have done for so many wish I had the the $$$$ you needed for your vaccine . God bless you and your work Daveyo , Sincerly Nancy Dodd

[Daveyo]

Hi Nancy:

Just received your post a couple minutes ago. Please listen to me.

You have to find some NDV quickly both for the body and for the CSF tap. It is essential that you do this within the next 72 hours.

NDV is sold somewhere near 3.00 usa dollars the last I heard a few days ago. You can find this at any agriculture poultry store. If they not have it, ask them to locate you some immediately, and tell them its for your chickens. Save yourself the hassle of explaining why you need it for the dogs.

Weigh the dog and the Dx for the body is 0.1cc of NDV for every pound or 2.2 kg. If between add another 0.1cc to the actual amount. Ok Take the solution and fill up the NDV which is in freeze dried form. The max this vial can hold is about 3.0cc of solution. This amount is good for a dog weighing just slightly less than 30 pounds or 66 kg.

Then shave the front legs of the dog where the blood vein is located and fill the required amount of NDV into the syringe and needle. Insert the needle to the vein and slightly pull back on the plunger to make sure you see blood going into the syringe. If you do, then inject to the dogs.

Cure of this disease in your case will be about 24-48 hours since they are pretty much advanced.

Then you need to do the CSF tap and only a VET can do this. The Dx for the tap requires the following of which should be put into the Foramen Magnum ( the bottom base of the skull in the back of the head at the cerebral cranial cavity).

The vet will need to have these items on hand. Anti-shock meds to give to the dog based on the weight of the dog. Anesthesia to put the dog to happy land for about an hour so not to move during the tap procedure. 1 vial of NDV with the sterile solution to mix the freeze dried. The vet also needs to have IV flowing during this procedure. 1 syringe of Saline of 0.1cc to flush the needle hub after the NDV is injected to the spinal canal.

The VET takes out 0.5cc of spinal fluid and removes 0.3cc of this into another sterile vial to save to send for testing of specific Distemper and send it to Antec Labs in USA.

Leave the 0.2cc of spinal fluid in the syringe and then take needle and withdraw 0.2cc of the NDV into same needle. Mix it and remove all air in the syringe and needle. Then inject to the dog at the cather which is already in place at the spinal cord. Then take the saline syringe which contains 0.1cc and then flush out the needle hub.

Remove all items and sterilize the puncture wound area. Then the VET needs to have Baytril of 0.5cc and penicillin G (broad Spectrum) of 1.0cc and mix and then inject to the dog intramuscular. This has to be done for 7 days twice a day every 12 hours to stop the pneumonia that is in the lungs caused by Canine Distemper

After this wait until the dog wakes up and when it stands on its own, then remove the IV and your ready to take home. The cure (stopping the virus in the spine and brain is 24 hours) and the body on average 24 hours as well.

So with both injections your cure on the dog should be complete by day two. The antibiotics needs to be followed thru. By day three the dog should be breathing better and hopefully get hungry as heck by this time.

You do not wash the dog for 1 month, and you do not give any vaccinations of any kind for up to 1 year. The NDV will immune this dog for life against Canine Distemper. You will not need to vaccinate this dog or dogs for Distemper ever again.

When you do the other vaccinations, give only single shots of KILLED VIRUS ONLY. Do not give any MODIFIED LIVE VIRUS VERSIONS. For the Parvo virus vaccine give this as the last shot after you do the other vaccines. Parvo must be of killed virus version. After this you can you only give 1/2 dose shot of parvo killed virus spread apart one month. Then one more and then your done. All vaccines be of killed virus then you only do once every 3 years including Rabies as well.

Now if your serious, get on it right away and get that vet to do his job. You can save your dogs.

This cure stops the virus, and eliminates this virus from doing any more damage to your animals and also will vacate the imminent death sentence that your dogs are now facing. It does not repair the damage. The damage was caused by the virus. You need to give a lot of care and allow the animal to recover over time. It will do depending on the dogs genetics and immune response. The dog and its genetics will repair the damage on their own.

What is happening right now your dog is having nerve degeneration (demyelination) caused by the virus. It is progressive and soon the Myelin and Schwann cells will be destroyed. You need to do this Tap ASAP along with the body as well.

You have a definite emergency on your hands and do not delay this if you want your dog to survive and to recover.

Don't play with this disease. It is not going to wait for you. It is out to kill your dogs. So get your battle gear going and scrounge up money from friends and neighbors and family members and anyone else and get the money and get the NDV and pay the VET to do his job right.

After this you should be Ok. Giving your dogs time to heal. Do this to all the dogs ASAP. All of them are now infected.

Let me know how everything went OK.

Daveyo.