[briton32]

Hi there I am new to the board and have a couple of questions...

First question is can distemper present without the GI and Resp symptoms?? I am talking skipping all that and going straight for the cns symptoms?? It seems everything Ive read about it talks about loose stools,runny eyes,runny nose,loss of appetitte,etc...The only symptom my vet is going on is the fact my puppy is having seizures....

My puppy is a 7week 1day old 1/2 walker coonhound&1/2 mastiff mix..He weighed 12.5lbs at the vet today.. He is one of 3 in a litter that was born to my female dog.. Saturday evening around 530pm my husband heard the puppies making alot of noise so he went out to their pen to see what was going on..When he got out there he noticed the puppy in question having full out convulsions..He immed brought the puppy to me..The convulsions lasted approx 6mins.. Here a few weeks back I began to notice the puppy would kinda drop its head to the ground(chin first) while his front legs sprawled beside him.He would do it a couple times and would be fine..I assumed that maybe he had some hip dysplasia and maybe the hip was sliding in and out of socket..I was planning on taking him to the vet this week if i noticed it happening again..Now I am pretty sure from seeing his full out convulsions that it wasnt his hips but was him having some seizure activity even as early as 2-3wks ago..
Anyways I digress, I brought the puppy into the house so I could keep a watch on him.Over the next 36 or so hrs he had several more full out convulsions(seizures) lasting 5-12mins.. The convulsions(seizures) as I said have been his only symptom..His appetitte is GREAT..His stools are firm and normal.There has been NO vomiting none of that stuff and has never been(Ive been around him 3-10+times a day since birth) Between episodes he is his normal playful self..
Being worried about the little fellow I took him to the vet as soon as they opened this morning..They took him to the back and the vet came out a short time later and told me he thought he was more than likely distemper from the "look" of the puppy..He said he wanted to run a cpl more tests to make sure and for me to come back within an hr..He also told me that only 1% of puppies with distemper actually survive.. I left for the hour then came back..The vet came out and told me that they had ran a cbc and blood glucose check and that the puppy was running a little bit of a fever(it was 101.6).. He showed me the cbc results and his wbc was 12.4 though his lymphocytes I think(dont quote me) were 48% and should be around 15 or so..his blood sugar was 155. Before I left and the tests were done he had told me that if the wbc's were below normal then that would definately mean he had distemper after I came back he said he still thought it probably was distemper but since the tests didnt show it for sure that he was gonna give him a chance and send him home on high dose valium,prednisone and doxycycline just in case it was some sort of infection in the csf..He told me that if he was no better by monday or got worse before then that I should bring him back and we would go from there. So I now have him at home in isolation from the other dogs..

What do you think?? Does this sound like distemper to you?? NONE of the other dogs have ANY signs or symptoms AT ALL... Also the mom and dad dogs have had all their vaccines though I did give them a distemper booster today per the vets suggestion as well as my inside dog..My inside dog is also up to date on his injections and also received a booster today too due to his being in the house around the puppy all weekend...

Ok I know this is ridiculously long..But I have one more question.....My inside dog as well as my adult dogs outside(mom & dad) have had their vaccines when they were supposed to as well as a booster today as I have already told you about..What are their chances of catching the distemper??Or are they out of the woods due to the vaccines?? I have the puppy in a seperate room in a crate away from my inside dog but it still scares me..I dont want him to get sick..Will he be ok? What if something happens and the puppy gets away from me on my way from his crate to out side where I take him to use the bathroom(in a far away seperate area from where my inside dog goes)...

Oh and one more detail that may or may not be important...The mother and father dog are in a secure fenced in area and are never around other dogs...Just in case it matters..

Thanks in advance for your answers and wisdom...

Take care.
Briton32

Sorry it became so long...

[briton32]

P.S.... The puppy also has had NO change to the pads of his feet......They are still pink and soft like they always have been....

[Daveyo]

Ok first of all your letter is not long.

Secondly, any dog that has had full prior vaccinations against the disease and was up to date will be Ok and will not catch distemper even though this disease is an airborne and contact disease.

You not only have one dog having a problem but you also got the other two dogs who also probably are infected as well of Canine Distemper.

Right now you do not do any vaccinations to any dog period since there is a sickness ongoing.

Thirdly you must have the VET do this particular test like it or not if you want to be absolutely certain it has the disease. It is as follows:

The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells which are carmine red and para nuclear.

Any medical person can tell you how to get cells from the bladder. Urinary catheter. Empty bladder flush with saline and collect some of the last saline. Spin down the saline and remove the cells. Place on slide and dry stain with diff-quick. Very common stain used by most medics or lab people who use medical microscopy. Everyone? I should hope so. Very fast, very cheap, very accurate for Dx of distemper. If present then Distemper. If negative then either kennel cough or respiratory Herpes or Toxoplasmosis.

This test you can find out your answer in 30 minutes and it is 100% accurate.

In concern of the CSF first you must determine from this test that is done from the body. If it shows up positive then you need to find NDV > Newcastles Disease Virus Vaccine. The Dx is 0.1cc for every pound or 0.45kg You inject straight to the blood vein from the syringe on the front leg of the dog. No intravenous means OK. So weigh your dog as soon as possible at time of the injection. You can find NDV at any agriculture poultry store or from any chicken farmer who can lead you straight to the source for the NDV. The cure for the body takes 24 hours.

As of the CSF you will need to administer based on the size of the dog at the time. In your case you mention here it being a puppy, the size can be either a toy or small size. This procedure has to be done by a experienced VET. I do have my site at caninedistemper dot proboards60 dot com and there you will find the medical protocol for the CSF tap.

Your dog right now is experiencing full blown ODE and the length is most worrisome. 5-6 minutes is way long. The prognosis is very poor at this moment of time unless you act very fast and get that tap done ASAP without any further delay.

I also suggest you test the remaining other 2 puppies for this disease as you can catch it now before it is too late for them as well.

Your VET is all wrong in the information they are giving to you, and the treatment is way off base.

Start with Phenobarbital of 8.125mg as soon as possible and give every 8-12 hours for the first 3 days and then every 24 hours until you can get that CSF tap done and give the NDV. This will slow down those seizures and prevent it from killing your dog. After the NDV is given you might need to do this for 1 year as it takes a long time to stop seizures due to the damage in the neuron tracts.

Secondly you have to also treat for pneumonia so get an X-ray or have the VET listen to the lungs carefully. Baytril of 0.5cc and penicillin G of 1.0cc for 7 days straight and every 12 hours is to be given only after you give the NDV to the body portion of your puppy intramuscularly.

After this then it might have a small fighting chance. Once you do the CSF tap then it will hopefully have a better chance to survive the onslaught of the disease based on the genetics of the dog. You will have to be patient and give it time to recover if you do everything I tell you here and also from my site.

If the WBC drops any further, give it 0.1cc of nupogen which should bring back up the defense mechanism of the dog to fend off this virus as well.

Small fevers are indicative of either Kennel Cough or respiratory Herpes. Both also are similar to Distemper symptoms. Distemper will have fevers in the 105 to 106 range and other symptoms will show up as well.

Toxins also cause seizures such as paint or chemicals in the surrounding area.

5% of dogs survive Distemper worldwide, not 1% however I think he means 1% escaping from serious neurological damage.

Keep posting here and let me know the progress. Don't wait and start looking for that NDV now so the Doctor can give it to the dog on the body portion ASAP. Ask the VET if he can do the CSF tap as well. If he can then your in luck as he can then save your dog its life and the cure of the CSF is also 24 hours. In my site gives the entire instructions in doing the medical protocol so please do not deviate as this medical procedure is absolutely proven effective and most dogs survive if followed accordingly.

Daveyo