[iam]

Hi Daveyo,

I was passed from one vet to another because they are skeptical about the procedure you posted which i shared to them. I feel im losing time here for my dog until i was able to talk to another vet over the phone who i think is a little toughie than the rest. Sadly, it seems that no vet here in the Philippines uses the brush border test for distemper . they have just read it in the literature but has not practiced it clinically. The vet i talked with over the phone found the test manageable though after i read to her the procedure of the test you have sent me. I might be able to convince her to do so since its just for diagnostics. Does she have to do it with my dog sedated? She said it will really be uncomfortable for the dog since a catheter will be inserted and that it will be the first time she will be doing it... ( prone to errors then).

ALSO, she was asking me this question, which i told her i will ask you immediately..
GIVEN THAT SHE SPIN DOWN THE LAST SALINE AND REMOVE THE CELLS, PLACE IT ON A SLIDE AND DRY STAIN WITH DIFF-QUICK, WHAT INCLUSIONS SHOULD SHE LOOK-OUT FOR???? She was asking if this literature that you posted included a description of what to look for in the microscope to validate distemper. She would appreciate a picture of the slide as seen in the microscope to compare the actual test of my dog so as to affirm the distemper as what you have stated in your post. PLEASE ADVISE DAVEYO. We want to be guided step by step from the very beginning since this is really the first time here.

ANOTHER CONCERN, I forgot to inform you that prior to my dog being symptomatic of lessened activity and lack of appetite last december 23 which promoted us to see a vet until he was diagnosed of distemper last Jan. 4, I NOTICED SOME SORES/BLISTERS ( about five) IN HIS SCROTUM. It dried-up but is still seen up to now most probably because of the DOXYCILIN which his first vet prescribed and the second vet advised to continue up to now since DEC 26 taken bid. Im telling this because you mentioned in your response about HERPES. Do you think my dog has herpes? what is the test to check it out? Does it also have MUSCLE TWITCHING sign? Is it fatal? Is it curable? If yes, how? My dog is a male and his B**** gave birth last August 2007 of five pups born premature which eventually all died after a week. The twitching of my dogs muscles (upper limb and diaphragm area) seems to have increased. PLEASE COMMENT.

I will go to the vet tomorrow for testing and I will share her your posting about the procedure of vaccination. She said she will study it first and post some questions which I will send to you immediately for verification. The brush border test is a little easier to negotiate since it is for diagnostics only. If positive, I still have to negotiate with her for the vaccination of NDV. It might be that I will be asked to sign a waiver/consent since it is a radical new procedure here in the country and is a ground for malpractice. Im afraid but in case my dog is really positive... what are the chances he will survice the NDV vaccine injected to his vein???? The vet said since it is a virus directly injected into the vein, my dog can go into an ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK. How true is this? In the venous injection of NDV vaccine, will the dog be sedated or be given anti-shock meds? Please comment.

More questions will be asked tomorrow once she reads the details of the procedure you posted. I hope you are still there to answer all of them for clarification. Both the Vet and I are afraid, but if its really distemper... Im willing to sign the consent and follow you. PLEASE STAY WITH US IN THIS ENTIRE PROCESS.

I would really appreciate your immediate reply to this message. I am hoping that I will be able to share your answers to the questions here to the vet tomorrow as we do a case conference. Your inputs are crucial to the conference. GOD BLESS YOU DAVEYO. Will wait for your response.

Warmly,
IAM of the Philippines

[Daveyo]

Ok first this vet has to pull out a manual book that has pictures. You need to know what the virus looks like. It will be hard to post it here the pic. I will look up on the web here to see if I can find it within the next couple of hours. If she has a computer she then can see it.

NDV also cures herpes. No need to worry there. Twitching is Chlorea. Dogs can live a long time with this, but if the dogs get seizures, it is always fatal. This indicates myelin damage is happening with the T-4 cells destroying the myelin and the Schwann cells causing the problem. If it increases, not a good sign. I believe you are close to seizure stage right now or you missed the dog having one. Most twitching occurs after a seizure.

No problem he will survive the NDV if injected into the blood stream preferablly on the leg. No need to have a dog sleep. No shock will occur. Just like a regular shot use a needle and put it to the blood vein if you not want to do the cather needle. Don't forget to weigh the dog and go on that formula for the weight with the NDV. The shock involves the CSF TAP. In the CSF Tap new procedure now>>>> is give the dog anti-shock medicine. Much better now thus avoiding any problems associated with shock in the CNS. Tell her not to confuse the body with the CNS. Ok

After the NDV is injected to the body, you must give the dog 24-48 hours for recovery. OK. Then you have to wait 3 days then do a blood test to find out the WBC reading. Most important. After the NDV injection you also need to also wait 14 days. You are going to need to do the CSF TAP no doubt about it to confirm Acute Distemper Antibodies in the CSF. You need to do only one test and that is Distemper Antibodies test. This is for the IgA, Igm, and IgG. The one you want to know is the IgG. The IgG in the CSF can be regarded as a sensitive and specific indicator of distemper encephalitis. IgG is produced locally in the CNS and will not be present in vaccinated dogs. Contamination of the CSF tap with whole blood can be a problem, but simultaneous measurement of the parvovirus antibody titres in the CSF and blood can help rule this out. Other Typical CSF changes are raised protein and lymphocytic pleocytosis. If this is confirmed then you have to inject the NDV into the CNS and only 0.1cc of NDV is needed ASAP before the seizures begin. I have already posted the proceedure on this forum.

Sign the form it is a formality for both of your protection so none of you blame each other OK. She is doing you a favor so be nice to her and risking her practice because she wants to save your dog.

Your going to have to move quickly with this one. Two signs are present and this is not a good sign. First get that dog cured body wise. Then get the dog with the CSF Tap done.

On this tap you have two options. After 14 days unfortunately you have to wait because it acts like a vaccine this virus of Distemper, you can have the VET take out some CSF and save it and put it into a small vial and freeze it right away and at the same time while she is doing this then inject the NDV into the CSF. Your doing two things at the same time. One you got the CSF before the NDV injection which you can then get it tested out. Tell her to take out at least 0.2cc or 0.3 cc of it. With only 0.1cc of this fluid, only 1 test can be done and its all used up. Better to back it up with some extra in case the researcher messes up. The other your stopping the T-4 killer cells from damaging the myelin and Schwann cells any further and hopefully the dog can recover, and hopefully if not too late prevents a seizure from occurring. It takes 72 hours for this to become effective. Even if your dog has the seizure after the NDV it will live. Without it the dog will die. Once the OLD Dog begins it is progressive and a death sentence. With the NDV, the dog will live and the progression stops and the dog needs time to recover.

REMEMBER ONCE GIVEN NDV IN THE BODY YOU CANNOT GIVE ANY MORE TO THE DOG. IT IS A ONE TIME DEAL. ALSO ONCE IT IS GIVEN IN THE CSF YOU CANNOT GIVE ANY MORE TO THE DOG HERE AS WELL. ONE TIME DEAL.

NDV WILL NOT BREACH THE BLOOD BRAIN BARRIER WHICH IS THE CSF AND CNS. UNDERSTAND THIS WELL. It has to be put into the CNS manually.

I will be here for you, so don't worry. I am about 1 or 2 hours behind your time. Don't worry both of you OK. RELAX AND DO THE STEP ONE AT A TIME. If she wants to know more tell her to ask. No problem.

Now I will look for a picture of what the virus will look like in that microscope. Watch for my answer soon.

[Daveyo]

IAM here is some information for your VET in the Philippines. She needs to register to IVIS and it is quite simple to get in.

Now here is the sites that may be of some help for her.


http://www.ivis.org/advances/Rebar/Chap5/chapter.asp?LA=1


[moderator note: website address has been removed]


[moderator note: website address has been removed]


[moderator note: website address has been removed]

This is the one I am working on right now.^^^^^

I am unable to paste any pictures here of what the virus looks like, but it is on the sites listed here. It is very technical and has lots of doctor jargon on it so I do hope she can understand.

If possible she can look up in her medical books of pictures of what measles looks like, but distemper when magnified 100x looks a bit different but same virus. She should know when looking at that microscope cells that look normal which will be plenty and then see the abnormal cells therein. When you spot that those are called inclusions or Virus cells.

I am trying not to confuse you here but tough to say.

Anyway hope this helps you, and will wait for your response coming up.

To moderator- leave these links alone >>>these are doctor links for his VET. Thanks.

[Daveyo]

To IAM

Still waiting word from you and of the VET. Hmmm

Whats going on??? Distemper clock ticking and have not heard a thing???

Wow.

[stulchinsky]

IAM here is some information for your VET in the Philippines. She needs to register to IVIS and it is quite simple to get in.

Now here is the sites that may be of some help for her...


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