[Gillian Neville-Ball]

We adopted a very small cross-Spaniel/Saluki? from a reputable Humane Society shelter in Cuernavaca, Mexico, run by Americans with an excellent vet. We adopted him about 7 weeks ago. This 8 month old dog had only been in the shelter for a short time, having been found starving on a street. He was given all his shots immediately at the Humane Society and showed no signs of distemper during the time he spent at the shelter. (I know that these symptoms can take some time to develop). However, a few days after he came to our home he began coughing and having a problem breathing (almost like an asthma attack). We immediately took him to our vet who feared distemper but gave him an antibiotic injection as he had a high temperature of 40 cel. and we all hoped for the best - wondering if it could be kennel cough. The pup recovered well for a few days with twice daily doses of the antibiotic - his temperature went down and he was not so lethargic. However, the symptoms returned about a week later and a blood test did confirm our vet's worst fears.
Our vet's main concern was our other dog who had been in very close proximity with the pup in our small house - playing and sharing life. Our almost 4 year old Schipperke has had his distemper shots annually - the last one being at the end of August in Canada. The vet here immediately gave him 3 booster shots to be extra safe. He seems to be fine with no signs of any infection whatsoever and he has been checked by the vet recently with a clean bill of health.
In the meantime the cough has become much more rare with our now 9 month old (perhaps 1 or 2 in the morning) and his breathing gasps have also decreased considerably. He has shown some signs of mucus in his nose and is a bit snuffly in the early morning when all the symptoms seem to be much worse. They all disappear completely during the active daytime hours. His eyes have remained clear. He has no sign of "hard paws". He is very active and alert and playful. He has had no temperature for the past 4 weeks. I have tested hitting his ribs and no coughing ensues. His appetite has increased considerably and he is now eating about 4 good sized meals a day - (Hills Puppy tinned food with Science Diet Puppy dry food mixed with Omega oil along with vegetables and vitamins). He was pathetically thin when he was found, but we feel that he is FINALLY showing some signs of filling out. His feces are completely normal and he has shown none of the digestive or neurological symptoms of distemper He was checked last week by another vet who felt he was better.
I am wondering if it is now too late to give him the NDV suggested on this site? We also wonder how long it might take him to fully recover - or if indeed he will recover now that he has improved so much? We will be returning to Canada in May and will have to leave him in the care of someone here or have him put down if his virus has not disappeared completely. The latter would be an awful alternative as he has entered into our lives with so much affection and sweetness and the two dogs have become inseparable as friends. So we do hope for the best. If the NDV is a possibility at this stage I will look and see where I can get hold of it in our area of Mexico. I also heard of a vet who said he can give an injection that will get "rid of Distemper" - could this be NDV - or nothing at all? Our vet has never heard of a "cure" per se, just TLC and lots of attention to alleviate the symptoms, but I am willing to show him your information on NDV.
I would really appreciate any information you can give us and if there is any hope of saving this little fellow. We have heard of many other successful recoveries here - even a 4 month old puppy which is much more unusual. Thank you for your attention, Gillian Neville-Ball

[Daveyo]

First of all the other dog of yours that is 4 years old who had its shots in August will not get Distemper. No need to give him any more boosters. Too much vaccine is not good for the dog, so please keep that in mind.

I don't think your dog is showing any distemper. However to confirm if the dog has it, you must do this test and again I will repeat it.

The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells. If present then Distemper. If not then something else. It's the gold standard of all VETS and the VET should be able to do this test.

Diseases that mimic and is similar to Canine Distemper

Chastek's

Listeriosis

Tularemia

Histoplasmosis

Poisonings

Secondly Canine Distemper is rapid. First signs are very high fevers between 104 to 106 deg F. It lasts only for a short while. Then the stools will begin to show soupy signs. The dog will go into withdrawal, and not want to participate. It will not eat or drink much but at time it will do so. Other signs are hardening of the pads most common, goop in the eyes, and yellowing of the teeth, also on the nose with a lot of mucus. It is progressive and gets worse as time goes on and it not give a break here or there.

So based on your description, I believe your dog has herpes. It mimics distemper but it is sort of like a flu which attacks the upper respiratory system on dogs. Antibiotics are in order here. Baytril and Penicillin G is in order here.

As of the NDV you are welcome to show the vet of the cure for this disease. It also cures fading puppy syndrome, stomach cancer and also stops the neurological effects of Distemper in the CNS.

From onset of real Canine Distemper, the signs of the pads will be roughly within 2 weeks and it gets worse.

Have the VET do a blood test to see what the WBC is. Hopefully it is above 9.0. If not nupogen is in order. A very small amount of nupogen is to be given. It is highly potent and shoots that WBC right up. 0.1cc is enough. Then wait and then do another blood test 7 days later.

Do not use NDV unless that brush border test confirms it. You can use NDV only once on a dog body injection. And only once on the CSF tap. Any further, it will defeat the purpose and it creates antibodies specifically for chickens and it causes a immune cascade problem. So be warned OK.

Now the serum if the vet makes it can be used more than once both ways. It is even better and stronger than NDV but it takes time to make it. Most dogs having Distemper do not have time, it is critical for their survival, so NDV is the best emergency option and its available most places around the world.

So for now concentrate on getting the antibiotics in the dog OK

Keep me posted OK

[Gillian Neville-Ball]

Not sure if my earlier response reached you - our computer said it couldn't be delivered! Anyway just in case - thanks so much for your response and input - I really do hope it is Herpes and not
distemper. I will take your suggestions to our vet - considered one of the best in Cuernavaca and hope he can follow this up. He did say that the blood test that showed distemper in our little pup is never 100% full proof.
Too late for the almost 4 year old dog - he has had his boosters. There is much paranoa here over distemper - understandably so - so safety is at the top of the agenda for all dogs concerned. I could perhaps get the same penicillin that the pup was given at the early stages as it is over the counter here, but will check this out with the vet. Really appreciate your reply - it does give us much hope!
Two brief questions - this pup is scratching a lot despite bathing with medicated shampoo - can this be another sign of Herpes? Is there is any reason why "distemper" could have shown up in the blood test if it is something else?
Will let you know how things evolve.
Gillian Neville-Ball

[Daveyo]

First blood tests for Distemper is more negative positive than positive positive. In other words it gives the VET a lot of false readings. More like 80% of the time false. It is possible your VET sees distemper antibodies but not the virus itself.

Again do that brush border smear of the bladder and do the quick stain dip and check for inclusions (the virus will show if it is there) and if it is then it is confirmed acute distemper. If not, something else.

Secondly, the scratching can be caused by other factors such as allergy from toxins, or food etc, FLEAS, or dry skin etc. Have the Vet do a check on the infected area, scrape it and look in the microsope to see what is there. From that point on then the treatment. Herpes does not cause scratching.

While your at it, do get the WBC and blood test reading. It can also tell you a lot of what is going on with the animals health. You can also do the urine test as well as the fecal test for worms etc. The vet has to do all these things to get some accurate picture on the health status of the dog. Dogs cannot speak except to bark so go figure.

I wrote before but it looks like it not get thru here. Trying it again.

Keep us posted.

[Gillian Neville-Ball]

Got it this time - off to the vet tomorrow - thanks again for all your input - will let you know how things progress. This pup does not have fleas - this has been well checked. The scratching is something he has had since he came to us. We are bathing hm in a special medicated shampoo which seems to alleviate the problem for a couple of days and giving him Omega daily in his food for dry skin. Our air is very dry this time of year - no humidity at all which may cause the dryness. The skin has been scraped and tested, but nothing positive has shown up. He has also been medicated for worms or intestinal parasites. We shall see!
Gillian Neville-Ball

[Daveyo]

Just thought to let you know that dogs even when vaccinated can get Canine Distemper believe it or not. It is quite simple. The virus mutates and changes form which the vaccine and the antibodies have no effect to stop it. Many VETS cannot believe that it is possible and once they hear a dog is vaccinated they usually rule it out.

That is why I tell you this test doing the brush border smear of the bladder. This specific test is is very accurate with a false reading of less than 1 percent.

So Canine Distemper can strike both ways, either vaccinated or unvaccinated. The odds of a dog that is vaccinated against Distemper of getting the acute distemper is about 5 percent. Depends if that virus mutates. The good news is either the Serum or the NDV can still stop it even if it mutated. Hooray for medical marvels. go figure.

Meantime I am working on the bird flu problem and the OLD Dog Encephalitis problem regarding the lesions in the brain and the damage myelin from the brain and stem and spinal cord resulting from the Canine distemper disease. Got some real toughies here.

Will wait for your response.

[iam]

Dear Daveyo,

I am IAM from the Philippines. I have a 4-year old Golden Retriever diagnosed of distemper last January 4. His behavior changed and has minimal muscle twitches evident during rest. He still eats and drink though and has kept his weight so far. Our vet told me eventually it will worsen. Im depressed with the the readings about the case but became hopeful with your post regarding the cure. Thank you so much for posting. As we proceed, please let me clarify some matters about your post:
1. The only test done with my dog is through blood sample. I think it was to test presence of both parvo and distemper in one. They used what they call the distemper kit. Do you think this is accurate? I asked our vet to do the "bush border test" of the urinary bladder lining but they have not heard about it. Please clarify and advise.

2. We have searched for the serum you mentioned. Here in the Philippines it is LASOTA not lasorta as you have mentioned. Are they the same? The vet told me that indeed it was used for poultry. Our vet is very skeptical on using it to our dog. Please advise.

3. So far, my dog did not exhibit other symptoms other than a decreased activity, minimal muscle twitches during rest in the limbs and abdominal area and i think a little difference in his breathing. Do you think he is a good candidate for the VENOUS injection of the NDV? Our vet is not capable of injecting or doing the spinal tap. I am apprehensive that they can only go as far as the venous injection phase. What should we do then?

4. In the blood test for virus using the kit, the vet told me that my dog is also positive of parvo. But i have not seen any signs or symptoms indicative of such. What's your opinion about this? Do you think this will complicate the situation in case we proceed injecting the NDV?

I pray that you reply in the soonest possible time. It really matters.

Thank you.

IAM

[Gillian Neville-Ball]

Whether it was Herpes of Distemper, it seems that our little fellow is pretty well recovered - just a slight cough in the early hours of the chilly mornings and fine the rest of the day and night. His appetite is excellent and he is very lively and playful - no temperature and no other signs of the virus. The vet has given him a clean bill of health and was delighted with his recovery. We are most relieved and thanks for the input during a worrying time. Gillian Neville-Ball

[Daveyo]

Hello IAM

I will answer the questions as you indicated by the numbers here. FIRST WHAT IS THE TEMPERATURE OF THE DOG. Distemper will put the dog in fever very high like 104 to 106 deg F. Parvo is just a bit below it in the 103 to 104 deg F range. The fevers in Distemper is short lasting only a few days and it flares up and down. Parvo is usually steady. If that fever goes above 104 deg F then suspect Distemper.

1. Parvo is detected from the feces of the dog. There is a test kit known as the Elisia Test. There is one for Parvo and one for Distemper. The VET should get the Elisia Test for Parvo. Also a blood test for Parvo is done to determine the WBC ount. Parvo always brings down the WBC to below 6000.--->>>Laboratory tests include blood tests (e.g., to detect a low white blood cell count) and other tests to detect the virus (e.g., ELISA, electron microscopy). ELISA (enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay), which detects the presence of the virus in stool, is used most often. In some cases, recent immunization with the live virus can produce a false positive test result.



In addition the tests done by your VET is all wrong.

There was a typing error. It is called the Brush border test. (Brush) The very best test for rapidly diagnosing ACUTE distemper is to do what is called a brush border smear of the cells of the inside lining of the bladder. These cells ALWAYS have inclusions. So, easy to collect, easy to stain (quick dip) and instantly diagnosed with inclusions in these cells. If present then Distemper. If not then something else. Here is how it is done. Any medical person can tell you how to get cells from the bladder. Urinary catheter. Empty bladder flush with saline and collect some of the last saline. Spin down the saline and remove the cells. Place on slide and dry stain with diff-quick. Very common stain used by most medics or lab people who use medical microscopy. Everyone? I should hope so. Very fast, very cheap, very accurate for Dx of distemper.


Diseases that mimic and is similar to Canine Distemper

Chastek's

Listeriosis

Tularemia

Histoplasmosis

Poisonings

If your dog has Parvo the stools will get soft very quickly to soupy state, and it will become very dehydrated within hours. There is a treatment for Parvo using lots of fluids and also antibiotics and last of all Tamiflu. TAMIFLU STOPS PARVO DEAD ON ITS TRACKS. Here is how it is done ->>>Parvo. It is easily treated. Secret is fluids. Lots of fluids. Must be given through an IV. 100 cc per lb per 24 hrs and then some.(up to 200 cc/lb if necessary) Watch the Wt. of the dog to know if more fluids are necessary) Any diarrhea or vomiting he has to estimate the amount of fluid and add to the above. Second, need 2 antibiotics. We use Penicillin G and Baytril injectable. Works well. We also us Pectolyn with Tylan(Tylocin injectable) antibiotic orally.(10 cc injectable Tylan in 8 oz of Pectolyn and use this as about 5 cc twice daily to dogs in the 20 lb size) Third. Nupogen if the WBC falls to less than 6000. It absolutely bounces the WBC upwards of 12 thousand within 24 - 48 hrs. In parvo this is very important.
forth. Tamiflu---very important. We use a 75 mg capsule Dissolve this in saline or water and use 1 mg/lb twice daily for about 3 days. Seems to turn the virus off.


2. Yes Lasota is the same thing. You can use this. Inject to the body of the dog via the blood vein. Use 0.1cc for every kg of the dog. If between, add another 0.1cc. Since you said it is a golden retriever, you will need to buy a few vials of this. Weigh the dog first before buying it. You might catch this inside the 4-6 day window. Every vial can hold up to 3.0cc which is 66kg of body weight.

3. Distemper causes Pneumonia if your dog is having labor breathing. You can have your dog stand up and do a quick test. Tap a couple of times a bit hard on the chest area, and if the dog coughs right after the second tap Pneumonia is most likely suspect.

4. If your dog is tested for Parvo and confirmed via the Elisia test you can also tell if it is dehydrated by lifting the skin on the dog. If it sticks or goes back slowly, it is dehydrated and needs IV solution very soon or it DIES.

I am suspicious regarding your description on Number 3 --->>>>3. So far, my dog did not exhibit other symptoms other than a decreased activity, minimal muscle twitches during rest in the limbs and abdominal area and i think a little difference in his breathing. Do you think he is a good candidate for the VENOUS injection of the NDV? Our vet is not capable of injecting or doing the spinal tap. I am apprehensive that they can only go as far as the venous injection phase. What should we do then?


Dogs with Parvo will not eat or drink. Dogs with Distemper will eat and drink but very little.

Your dog can be sleeping, and they all twitch and breath differently depending on their doggie dreams. Just like you.

If your VET is not capable of doing the CSF tap, then I suspect the VET is a problem. All VETS are supposed to know how to do the Spinal Taps from training in School. So find a VET that can do this OK . If this VET can do the CSF tap, then this VET is worth looking into to check your dog out for Diseases as well.

If your dog is hit with Distemper and Parvo at the same time Treat the Distemper first and then treat the Parvo. When doing the Parvo wait minimum 24 hours after the Distemper NDV injection OK. In the meantime while you are waiting for the NDV to kick in and stop the Distemper, keep giving the dog the IV fluids as I described here. Most important. Then treat the Parvo.

The reason being is Distemper is 100 times worse than Parvo and Distemper causes a lot of damage. Even more so if the dog has Parvo at the same time.

Your dog is going to be very weak having a immune system problem. It is fighting off two diseases at the same time if all this is true.

So please have a VET do the Brush border smear test to confirm Distemper or not. If not then something else like Herpes. NDV cures Herpes as well. And then do the Elisia test of the feces of the dog to confirm if Parvo is present. Last get the blood test to find out the WBC readings. Most important if Parvo is suspect.

If Distemper is confirmed then do the NDV. If Parvo is confirmed then do the instructions as I gave above here.

Keep in mind once the dogs are injected with NDV you can only do it ONCE. Any additional injections of the NDV you will cause a immune cascade problem and the dog will more likely then die because of it.

Let me know the PRECISE INFORMATION COMING FROM A GOOD REPUTABLE VET. You must do all these tests to be accurate or your VETS DIAGNOSIS IS GOING TO BE WAY OFF BASE.

[Daveyo]

No problem Neville. Glad to hear all is well take care