Canine Distemper

[livingwith]

I rescue animals that are scheduled to be euthanized. I had taken in a litter of pups, 5 weeks old. One of the pups was greatly ill and I seperated her from the litter immediantly. She could barely take one step without falling over, she had eye & nasal discharge, sores on her face, eyes half closed, high fever, pneumonia along with diahrea, bleeding internally & refusal to eat or drink. She went to the vet and spent several days in intensive care, tests sent out confirmed distemper
...Read the full article

[whunter]

You've really come through some rough times with that little girl. I'm glad she's doing much better. If the diarrhea and depression are continuing, maybe you should consider another distemper test. You're so right about the information about this disease - it's all very vague.

Here's what I've read about long term affects of distemper. The baby teeth are often damaged, leaving the adult teeth to come in pitted and not very strong. There doesn't seem to be much you can do about this besides the usual brushing and general care.

The paw pads and nose may harden - if you look online, there are a few photos of this. Again, there doesn't seem to be any sort of treatment for it.

Your pet may suffer seizures that are described as "chewing gum seizures" where the dog opens and closes the mouth as though he/she is chewing gum. I've seen my dog have one of these since we've had him with no permanent repercussions. You can get them on an antiseizure medication for this.

Lastly, they may suffer with "old age encephalopathy" which basically sounds like a human having a stroke. Of all the side effects of this disease, I think this one will be the most difficult to deal with, should it happen.

My dog has a permanent myoclonic tremor in his left front leg that sort of extends up into the neck. This doesn't really slow him down and is most noticeable when he's at rest. From what I learned, he had quite a time like your little girl did. You did a wonderful job, and I wish you many happy years with her.

[Daveyo]

To Livingwith

In regards to your question on long term effects of Distemper, its quite simple

Those not treated with NDV will die from Old Dog Encephalitis which is technically meaning SEIZURES.

This can take place anywhere from 14 days to 8 years. No matter what it is PROGRESSIVE and your Dog has the second Death sentence.

Those moods and reactions is the dog is slowly getting worse, because it is having myelin damage in the CSF. Right now your dog has Distemper Antibodies inside the CSF.

If you want to stop it from getting any further and to really save your dog, you still can but you have to do the CSF tap procedure at least minimum 2 times. First one is to confirm on whether or not the brain fluid has Distemper Antibodies. (In your case here, it is diagnostic and pretty accurate by your description). So the second tap needs to be done and this time injecting NDV into the CSF.

Dogs treated with NDV in their CSF will live and NOT DIE and this will stop the mess and give the myelin a chance to recover along with the Schwann cells.


If you want to know more about this please look under Cure For Any Confirmed Cases of Distemper here in this forum under the topic index of "Canine Distemper Peer to Peer" which is also in the website search engine. You will find my postings and the instructions of what to do. You may print it and give it to your vet to follow.

I will be here.

[whunter]

In previous posts on this board, you have told people that if the antibodies get into the cerebrospinal fluid, the dog cannot be saved as it has crossed the blood barrier. So which is it? I'm beginning to think you work for the company that makes this Newcastle medicine you're touting and probably getting paid for it. I've yet to see a post where the original poster whom you have instructed comes back and says "Yes, my pet with distember was SAVED by getting Newcastles."

Suspect.

[Daveyo]

Whunter, you have not read the posts correctly. Secondly you do not seem to understand what Distemper does to dogs.

Now I will repeat it again so you being Whunter can understand. The Distemper gets inside the dogs either by airborne or contact means. This disease is both ways. The Disease can travel out to 20 miles airborne.

Next it takes 6-9 days from onset of infection for the Disease to replicate and to spread. After this, then the dog begins to show the signs of Distemper with very high fever, soupy stools, withdrawal symptoms, lack of eating and drinking. The only way for one to confirm positively is doing the bush border smear. There are other diseases that mimic Distemper so many VETS have a hard time distinguishing the differences and the bush border smear of the inside of the bladder lining is the only way to test and be accurate.

During this time period the person has a 4-6 day window to inject the dog with Newcastles Disease Virus Vaccine and to avoid any major damage especially secondary problems.

Once past this point, then major damage will occur to all animals infected with Distemper. A good 80% of the cases the Distemper breaches the blood brain barrier, and when it is in the CSF it becomes an antibodies. Every normal human person and dog has NO ANTIBODIES in this fluid and the system is clean.

NDV will not breach this barrier. You have to do it manually and only a VET can do such procedure.

You have two choices at this point, after injecting the dog in the blood stream of NDV, is to either wait until neurological signs occur which is the OLD DOG Encephalitis, or do a CSF tap about 20 days after getting the NDV body injection. Doing the CSF tap is the only way to confirm if there is DISTEMPER ANTIBODIES present. If present, then another CSF tap is needed to put the NDV to save the dog.

Any dog not treated with NDV either way by body or by CSF WILL DIE - period The death rate is 99%.

Some dogs do survive which is far and few in between and they will be in very bad shape and will eventually have the OLD DOG seizure.

Secondly I have seen some of your posts and it is TERRIBLE AND YOUR ADVICE IS GOING TO KILL DOGS.

Thirdly I do not work for any company.

Fourthly, I can have those I saved make posts to you on how I saved their dogs from Distemper just to SATISFY YOU PERSONALLY.

Fifth, I have three dogs here with me and I used the NDV and they are alive and healthy now. So let me be the first to post this as a witness to the fact that NDV does save the life of the dog.

Six, I have been in a lot of contact with experts in the research field, such as Mayo Clinic and also another expert Named Dr. Sears who has saved over 600 dogs from this Disease using NDV.

So best for you to do and I suggest is this, DON'T SAY SOMETHING THAT WILL KILL DOGS, or suggest tests of any kind unless you know personally what the heck it is about, and until you fully understand the cell structures of this Disease your not even close by a long shot.

I hope this is informative and educational for you and your interests.

Every advice I have given here and the postings of how to cure your dog, and the diagnosis came straight from the VET who saved over 600 dogs. I do this because this same VET saved mine and it became my desire to help others BECAUSE DOUBTERS LIKE YOU ARE THE ONES MISLEADING ALL THE OTHERS SAYING THERE IS NO CURE.

Fair enough!!!!!!

So please find another forum to give out your bad advice. Don't do it here because your going to KILL ANIMALS.

[whunter]

I haven't given out any advice - just empathy because I actually have a dog who survived distemper. I'm not here to give advice or play the hero. I'm here because I actually know what it's like to nurse a dog through the process, make sure I have a vet who knows what he's talking about, and support others in the decisions they make.

I'm not here to pat myself on the back or claim I have the cure all for a disease that is not totally understood, even today. If the disease was as predictable as you claim, the survival rate would be much higher.

[Daveyo]

The survival rate would be much higher and this is coming from only 1 Doctor mind you that saved 600 plus dogs and still counting himself.

We never did a consenses to all the VETS across the country how many they saved.

Granted you had a dog that survived Distemper. Well less than 20 % do.

Want to talk survival rates of those not treated???

Lets see, 20 percent survive, 80 percent DIE

Well I also am not here wanting to be a hero either. I don't want recognition either. I prefer to see people being happy that they saved their dog, and a simple thank you is sufficient. I already got such from those people.

In fact more and more Doctors are expressing interest and they want to learn more on how to cure this Disease. As a matter of fact this cure has been out for the last 30 years, but you have to also understand how medicine works in the real world. Human Doctors take priority, human diseases take priority, and VET Medicine is down on the bottom of the totem pole. Much less Human Doctors and researchers don't even want to bother talking to VETS. Everything a VET knows comes straight from the top which is the HUMAN Researchers, based on their findings from their tests that they did on animals

go figure.

Only now a person in the Mayo Clinic became convinced because they know what I am talking about, regarding MS which is the same virus. I got plenty of proof to back everything up that I say here.

I get ANGRY at people who challenge and ACCUSE ME like you did on your post WITHOUT justification and proof to the contrary..

And you cannot deny because it is posted and I saw it with my own two eyes.

If YOU can do better than Dr. Sears a licensed and registered VET in the USA with over 35 years experience with his OWN ANIMAL HOSPITAL and well respected in his community of his peers, and come up with something better in curing Distemper without holistic approaches and herbs and vitamins, then tell us. Doctor Sears is a PROVEN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD.

As for myself, I am most fortunate to have met this Doctor because he has a proven track record, and now I am learning more each day from him. He is also now MY DOGS OFFICIAL VET FOR LIFE.

I have never met a Doctor who was so well versed and has so much knowledge of not only this Disease but others as well, and every time HE made a diagnosis, he was dead correct. He also researches the cells and knows its inner workings. Very well advanced.

So I do this for him and to let others know that there is an OFFICIAL CURE, because the higher ups hate when a lower doctor does one upmanship to their knowledge and expertise. These are the people who deal with medical journals and publish their thesis in the books. They don't like it when a VET who is lower than them, has the ANSWERS and not they themselves. I have already encountered this problem myself. However I am making progress trying to get Dr. Sears thesis published.

I am not interested in getting a medal or be in the spotlight or be a HERO but is interested in only saving other peoples animals that they love dearly so much and have no recourse or hope because other VETS are reluctant to want to save dogs and or keep giving the wrong diagnosis to the owners. Its a business with them and they only want money and more money.



go figure

[whunter]

I'm not challenging your statistics on survival rates. I understand that you want to help people and save animals at the same time. But relax and realize that some animals cannot be saved and that every person is different when it comes to what he/she is going through. People make decisions on what they are comfortable dealing with. Some folks believe that dogs with distemper should be put down immediately. That's okay. Others believe in fighting for their dog's life, and that's okay too.

Make sure that the information you are providing is 100% effective. Because if it's not, you have someone out there that is thinking they have done everything they can for their pet, yet they've failed. Don't give false hopes and threats of "if you don't do this, your pet will die." That's so unfair. When it comes to distemper, we have no control. We're just simple dog mom's and dad's hoping that we're doing the right thing.

[Daveyo]

I agree that people need to make a decision regarding this disease. But most of the time, in fact 95% most VETS do not know how to cure the dog, and at least 50% give or take give a mis-diagnosis thinking they did cure distemper when in fact it was another issue and disease.

Granted not all VETS will have the necessary tools nor will they have the necessary means to do the job correctly.

Cannot blame them, cause of one thing Money.

The information that I have provided is 100% straight from that Doctor. No more or less. However I try to encourage people to not lose their hope when given such bad news because if they act fast enough they not only can minimize the damage but also save their lovable dog its life.

I lost two of mine, yes to this Disease, because I could not find a Doctor who knew how to do the CSF, and did not recognize this Disease fast enough. So it is a learning process, and as a result, I now saw what the Disease really does first hand up front, went thru all the seizures and believe me it broke very bit of my well being smack down to the core. It is really bad, and I want to contribute this effort for the sake of my 2 dogs in their memory in the hopes that I can save others from the dreadful fate and experience.

Bottom line it is up to the owners of these dogs, because it is their decision. I can only hope that they do save them.

Most people are not aware of this and only now slowly the word is getting out. Sooner or later eventually more VETS will know that there is a cure after all.

The one phrase you say if you don't do this it will die, is not a threat. It is a fact. Why, because in the past no one did anything and over 80% did die. So what else to tell them. I just tell them straight out. No need to make a threat. This stuff is real and this Disease is real and one of the most virulent that is around short of the other diseases that kill humans within hours.

The decision is still theirs to make nothing more or less.

Best to lay the cards on the table straight out and let them see what they are dealing with. No need to protect them for feelings or anything else. They are dealing with something that is a VIRUS not to play around with. If the human has not been vaccinated for measles, and they have a dog with Distemper, guess what happens to the human. They can die from it.

The vaccination programs mandated by the governments around the world has a very good reason. The same applies to the dogs coming from the VETS. They do this because they know the dangers, and of what can happen.

So I will do what I can to help if asked.

[Giftbearer]

whunter,

I just came across this thread and noticed that you're viewing this treatment as suspect, and that you say you don't see anybody coming back to say that NDV saved their dog. If I'd seen this thread sooner I'd have answered right away when you'd posted, because NDV absolutely, unequivically saved my dog, Carmella. She had the CSF procedure on October 1, 2008. Before that, her neuro symptoms were sending her downhill fast and any disease-progression stopped completely after she had the procedure.

She developed muscle-tone, her growth and weight increased, and her coat continued to improve. Her overall strength increased alot, and now she no longer falls. She has myoclonic jerking in the right front leg which affects neck and shoulder remaining from the Distemper damage (which she developed while I was beating the bushes to find a vet to do this), but the treatment stopped that from getting any worse. I am quite sure that had she not found help when she did that she would have progressed to seizures and/or paralysis, and by now she would likely have died. I found a vet to do the CSF procredure just in time.

If I'd gotten one to do it just a few weeks earlier she would not have been left with the myoclonic jerking either.

Even if you don't believe Daveyo, believe me, and believe Dr. Sears (and there are others who can attest that this is real as well). There is another man named Ed Bond who has gathered survivors in a Facebook cause group as well; http://apps.facebook.com/causes/176113?m=033297ec

Dr. Sears has a new website, so if you have any Distemper-related science questions I would encourage you to ask him directly; http://www.treatment4distemper.com/

The understanding of how and why NDV works to kill the Distemper virus is growing and continues to evolve as the science is fine-tuned with the advent of more success stories and more vets beginning to try this. Some of these vets make minor changes to the protocol as new information is learned. There's nothing suspect about it.

I think the point made earlier that you were referring to regarding the antibodies being fatal was about the fact that NDV can only be administered once by IV in the body, and once in the spinal canal or the dog will have a reaction to the antibodies.

If a dog has the CSF procedure (the injection of NDV into the spinal canal) and a vet were to try to do the same thing a second time on the same dog, then yes, THAT would cause an antibody reaction against the NDV and could be fatal. I think that is what Daveyo was trying to say before.

The question of how long after a dog has neuro-involvement from Distemper he/she develops Old Dog Encephalitis is not an easy one to answer. Dr. Sears told me it can be anywhere from a few weeks to 7 years, and that it depends on alot of factors, one being the genetics of that particular dog.

That said, I would not want to take any chances, and would have the dog treated with the CSF procedure as soon as possible. It is up to you what you want to do, but wouldn't you want to make sure the virus is gone permanently and won't ever come back to haunt you?

I know you don't want to believe your dog could get worse and you had hoped the worst was already behind you, but the fact that your dog has myoclonic jerking is evidence that the disease has started to get into the brain (in particular the white-matter). This is what happened to my dog, Carmella, and when it did I pushed my regular vet to help us find someone ASAP to do the CSF procedure. I wanted to make good and sure that the damage wouldn't get any worse; not just stick my head in the sand and hope it wouldn't.

NDV is so inexpensive that nobody here would have anything to gain financially by promoting its use for this purpose. Those of us who have experienced it first-hand are dog-lovers and want to help others not have to bury their dogs before their time. We don't want dogs or their owners to have to suffer for years to come. We've been there.

This is the first time there has been any real hope for dogs afflicted with this disease and it is very exciting!

You may have run across some of the herbal remedies scattered around the internet which purport to cure Distemper, but NDV is not in that category of fly-by-night questionable remedies with testimonials making inflated claims. This is real hope; not false. I have pictures to prove it; http://www.indiepublic.com/photo/albums/946391:Album:541951
(Click on each photo to see the description of when in the process it was). The ones showing her healing paw pads before treatment in the body, then 1 week after and 2 weeks after are pretty amazing.